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Erik Lamela

#21 User is offline   Notabadsquad 

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 05:34

I think a crucial question is this.

Does the undoubted hard work of Lamela give us more than what Bale would have provided in the same position?

Does endeavour appeal more than devastating proficiency because this might drive at the heart of it.

Bale would be unlikely to work as tirelessly as Lamela but would be more effective in key forward areas.

Who would Pochettino prefer because many of our fans are seeing the collective strength of the team above the pure ability of individuals and our transfer policy may run in parallel to that. At least while Pochettino is at the helm.
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#22 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 06:20

Bale was developed by the club, he was not purchased as anything other than a very raw left back. So your point about our transfer policy is incorrect. We've operated fairly similar when Arnesen was involved, in fact, it appears that we have learnt a good lesson and reverted back to a similar policy that actually got the ball rolling when ENIC took the reins.

The jewels in Harry's crown were Modric and Bale, both took time to settle. Ledley King was home grown and VDV was a bargain purchase. Since then we bought Paulie, Soldier and Lamela for big money and only Lamela has survived.

The appointment of Poch IMO, was/is an attempt to get back to doing what Arnesen started, it's proven that it serves us better than trying to buy super stars.

It's only his first season, but I've been saying for a while that I'd pick Lamela over Son. If you want to buy another G. Bale that's fine, but it's likely to take 2/3 years for him to evolve into anything.

Dembele of Fulham is a similar purchase to Bale, and Son is similar to Berbatov. Our transfer policy only deviated when we had the Bale money. It seems to me that we are trying to take the good points of Arnesen, the successful purchases of Commolli and hopefully the luck that acquired VDV and discard the failings of Bentley, Bent, Hutton Paulinho, Soldado etc.

Surely at some point you will have to concede that it's being done the right way, and giving players time in todays football is wise rather than contineuosly looking to buy a replacement.

Pritchard, Bentaleb and Mason have been labelled not good enough recently, and this season collectively they played how many game ? I wouldn't mind guessing it's less than 20. They've all had injuries so how does anyone know they are not good enough ?

Is Davies good enough ? If we compare Lamela to Bale as a benchmark, who should we compare to Davies ? Is Kane as good as Aguero ? Is Eriksen as good as Messi ? Is Walker as good as Danny Alves ?

You can always name a player better than the one you've got, you can always desire better players because there will always be better players.
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#23 User is offline   Notabadsquad 

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 06:28

View PostYidio Yidio, on 09 March 2016 - 06:20, said:

Bale was developed by the club, he was not purchased as anything other than a very raw left back. So your point about our transfer policy is incorrect. We've operated fairly similar when Arnesen was involved, in fact, it appears that we have learnt a good lesson and reverted back to a similar policy that actually got the ball rolling when ENIC took the reins.

The jewels in Harry's crown were Modric and Bale, both took time to settle. Ledley King was home grown and VDV was a bargain purchase. Since then we bought Paulie, Soldier and Lamela for big money and only Lamela has survived.

The appointment of Poch IMO, was/is an attempt to get back to doing what Arnesen started, it's proven that it serves us better than trying to buy super stars.

It's only his first season, but I've been saying for a while that I'd pick Lamela over Son. If you want to buy another G. Bale that's fine, but it's likely to take 2/3 years for him to evolve into anything.

Dembele of Fulham is a similar purchase to Bale, and Son is similar to Berbatov. Our transfer policy only deviated when we had the Bale money. It seems to me that we are trying to take the good points of Arnesen, the successful purchases of Commolli and hopefully the luck that acquired VDV and discard the failings of Bentley, Bent, Hutton Paulinho, Soldado etc.

Surely at some point you will have to concede that it's being done the right way, and giving players time in todays football is wise rather than contineuosly looking to buy a replacement.

Pritchard, Bentaleb and Mason have been labelled not good enough recently, and this season collectively they played how many game ? I wouldn't mind guessing it's less than 20. They've all had injuries so how does anyone know they are not good enough ?

Is Davies good enough ? If we compare Lamela to Bale as a benchmark, who should we compare to Davies ? Is Kane as good as Aguero ? Is Eriksen as good as Messi ? Is Walker as good as Danny Alves ?

You can always name a player better than the one you've got, you can always desire better players because there will always be better players.


I think you have missed my point somewhat.

Would Pochettino sanction the purchase of a player with pure talent but maybe not as tireless in their work ethic over another player in your opinion with slightly lesser ability but trojan-like in their efforts?

Developing players is not really my point here.
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#24 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 06:50

No, because pure talent would be expensive unless it was young and not developed. If it's young it will be more enthusiastic and the enthusiasm would be harnessed and encouraged. You would then have a talented and enthusiastic player that's willing to learn that wouldn't be falling in value.

A talented and busy player is what every manager would prefer, but older players have either picked up bad habits, or they are extremely good and cost a fortune.

Any manager worth his salt would rather unearth a gem rather than buy one. It's a bit like working hard every Saturday to save enough money to buy your own bike or your Mum and Dad just giving you one :grinny:
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#25 User is offline   griff 

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 07:15

View PostThiscouldbeouryear, on 09 March 2016 - 05:34, said:

I think a crucial question is this.

Does the undoubted hard work of Lamela give us more than what Bale would have provided in the same position?

Does endeavour appeal more than devastating proficiency because this might drive at the heart of it.

Bale would be unlikely to work as tirelessly as Lamela but would be more effective in key forward areas.

Who would Pochettino prefer because many of our fans are seeing the collective strength of the team above the pure ability of individuals and our transfer policy may run in parallel to that. At least while Pochettino is at the helm.

Bale not a hard worker, have you ever seen him play? He works hard and scores you 20 goals a season. I like Lamela, I like his work rate but he needs to score more. He is also a walking red card.Bale is miles ahead as a player.
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#26 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 09:07

Exactly, you can't really compare the 2 only that it took both of them a good while to show they have something other than JUST potential.

On the red card point, he works hard, and much like Alli, I don't want them to change until we do actually see a problem, at the moment both only have the potential to get sent off, I'm not sure either have been yet. :grinny:

If just potential isn't enough then it surely must cut both ways
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#27 User is offline   tomtom 

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 12:11

Bale doesn't work as hard any more. Has got stick for it in Spain. In fact for us he stopped focusing on tracking back and I remember a few on here being upset about it but on the whole he won way more games than his lack of tracking back could have cost us in the final season.

I'm prepared to accept no big ego superstar players if it benefits the collective team. I think this is key to Poch's style. I'd say under Harry we had far better individuals but gun to my head I think I'd take our current lot over that team.

Essentially right now if I had to pick between Pochettino or Bale as much as it pains me I think I'd have to go Poch as we don't know where this can go. I can't remember seeing a team, let alone a Tottenham one, look so united in philosophy and work ethic.

Hopefully though we can find a way of having both and top world class talent will buy into Poch's philosophy, contribute prolific amount of wonder goals but still do the hard graft required of em by Poch.
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#28 User is offline   Notabadsquad 

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 12:23

View Posttomtom, on 09 March 2016 - 12:11, said:

Bale doesn't work as hard any more. Has got stick for it in Spain. In fact for us he stopped focusing on tracking back and I remember a few on here being upset about it but on the whole he won way more games than his lack of tracking back could have cost us in the final season.

I'm prepared to accept no big ego superstar players if it benefits the collective team. I think this is key to Poch's style. I'd say under Harry we had far better individuals but gun to my head I think I'd take our current lot over that team.

Essentially right now if I had to pick between Pochettino or Bale as much as it pains me I think I'd have to go Poch as we don't know where this can go. I can't remember seeing a team, let alone a Tottenham one, look so united in philosophy and work ethic.

Hopefully though we can find a way of having both and top world class talent will buy into Poch's philosophy, contribute prolific amount of wonder goals but still do the hard graft required of em by Poch.


My question would be Bale or Lamela, if we accept that Bale would not work as hard?
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#29 User is offline   vortex444 

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 12:25

In a heart beat everyone in Tottenham would have Bale back
Club for his commercial value Poch for his pure talent and the fans as he is a firm favourite.

Would he fit in in my personal view yes he would he would get a work rate up under Poch and be a massive player for us again.

My personal view of Lamela is his work rate is great and he tries very hard to fit the club
My problem with him is he spends most of his time running in circles he is so left footed it's unbelievable and he has a poor touch he is light weight and has a poor end product most of the time
I personally feel he will be shifted this season if we get a better replacement for him but that's just me
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#30 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 13:11

I wouldn't want Bale back, I have no problems with him, I just don't see it being as good as before and that will gets the complaints flowing.

Hoddle, Klinsmann, even Teddy were never really the same when they came back. Plus, the comparison should really be 3 Lamelas for 1 Bale.

We've also seen Townsend fall away from a dual with Lama man, and atm Sonny isn't winning against him either.

I do believe that we would have sold him last summer if the money was good enough and anything up around 25 Mill probably buys him in a heart beat.
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#31 User is offline   Notabadsquad 

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 16:09

View PostYidio Yidio, on 09 March 2016 - 13:11, said:

I wouldn't want Bale back, I have no problems with him, I just don't see it being as good as before and that will gets the complaints flowing.

Hoddle, Klinsmann, even Teddy were never really the same when they came back. Plus, the comparison should really be 3 Lamelas for 1 Bale.

We've also seen Townsend fall away from a dual with Lama man, and atm Sonny isn't winning against him either.

I do believe that we would have sold him last summer if the money was good enough and anything up around 25 Mill probably buys him in a heart beat.


The question is hypothetical but I think this is partly Pochettino's mantra as well in that I think he would not necessarily take Bale over Lamela.

I find it incomprehensible but also an indication of the type of player we can expect to acquire in the summer.
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#32 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 16:54

View PostThiscouldbeouryear, on 09 March 2016 - 16:09, said:

The question is hypothetical but I think this is partly Pochettino's mantra as well in that I think he would not necessarily take Bale over Lamela.

I find it incomprehensible but also an indication of the type of player we can expect to acquire in the summer.


I don't think we would swerve a young player of ability, we would however swiftly move them on if they were lazy because they wouldn't be able to do the job needed. GB was not a lazy player when being developed, in fact he was up and down our flank like a whippet.

THFC have had skillfull players that did not put the effort in when defending. Ginola, Hoddle VDV, none of those players would survive in our system today because you would have to build your team around them, and a high press works better if everyone does it, one gap left open and you are screwed.

I touched on this with Alex about Dechamps not liking Payet, not all players fit every system. But for once, because Hoddle was my childhood hero, I'm enjoying the tactics above any individual flair and I'm happy to see where it takes us.
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#33 User is offline   aramak 

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 17:59

View Posttomtom, on 06 March 2016 - 23:27, said:

9 goals in 33 appearances in all comps this season. Never understand the "not a watch winner" argument some make about him. He has literally won matches for us with goals and assists no other player would make. I'd like him to do it more often but he's still probably at least 2-3 seasons away from being at his peak.

Thing is - if he doesn't score a goal or provide an assists you still get a big contribution from him due to his work rate. Not saying he's a 30M player but having just turned 24 and to be close to 1 goal in 3 from midfield, bagging assists and to my eye being the best presser in our team I can't think of many 30M players I'd be swapping him for in our first 11. Better alternatives are probably in the 40-50M range these days.

Chadli seems more clinical but if he doesn't provide a goal I'd say our team shame and performance as a whole suffers from having him on the pitch rather than Lamela. I still have faith Lamela will keep developing physically, he's clearly adjusted to the pace of the prem this season but he's not quite got the knack of how to be as prolific as he was in Italy - if that comes he'll justify his price tag and probably attract a higher price if well him.


Best explanation of where Lamela is at the moment. For me, he frustrates the life out of me but he probably understands the pressing system better than all the front 4 and he is 2-3 years away from putting together all parts of his game together to being an outstanding player. In fact while I believe he can get to that peak due to his sheer desire to win.

I don't think Eriksson has that same give it all or nothing to win despite his ability and Chadli is a scorer and nothing more without his goals he has no use to the team. MP has got big decisions in reshaping the squad in the summer
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#34 User is offline   C0YS 

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Posted 09 March 2016 - 23:09

Lamela was good last year when he was provided minutes. He had a hand in 15 goals last season (5 goals, 10 assists) and already has a hand in 15 goals this season (9 goals, 6 assists).
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#35 User is offline   griff 

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 08:11

Not enough goals in the League though
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#36 User is offline   SpursDan 

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 08:33

View Postgriff, on 10 March 2016 - 08:11, said:

Not enough goals in the League though


This is true..he does need to step up in this area!!
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#37 User is offline   Lonspurs 

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 13:26

View PostThiscouldbeouryear, on 09 March 2016 - 05:34, said:

I think a crucial question is this.

Does the undoubted hard work of Lamela give us more than what Bale would have provided in the same position?

Does endeavour appeal more than devastating proficiency because this might drive at the heart of it.

Bale would be unlikely to work as tirelessly as Lamela but would be more effective in key forward areas.

Who would Pochettino prefer because many of our fans are seeing the collective strength of the team above the pure ability of individuals and our transfer policy may run in parallel to that. At least while Pochettino is at the helm.



I've never been a Lamela fan but there's no doubt he HAS improved and is working hard for the team. I give him a lot of credit for that. That said, Poch has given him ample opportunity to deliver and does seem to FAVOUR the guy.

Lamela will NEVER match up to Bale. There was nobody in the PL who could hit goals from outside the area like Bale. Sometimes it made him impossible to mark. I doubt whether you will ever see Lamela hit more than one or two long-range goals in ANY season.

Personally, if Bale ever became available again and there was even a slight chance we could get him back I would break the bank to get him. I think he would just walk back into this team. He struck fear into clubs and they often doubled up against him. Alli, Kane, and Bale together? Crikey, just let me dream!!!!!!!!!
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#38 User is offline   Notabadsquad 

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Posted 10 March 2016 - 21:08

View PostLonspurs, on 10 March 2016 - 13:26, said:

I've never been a Lamela fan but there's no doubt he HAS improved and is working hard for the team. I give him a lot of credit for that. That said, Poch has given him ample opportunity to deliver and does seem to FAVOUR the guy.

Lamela will NEVER match up to Bale. There was nobody in the PL who could hit goals from outside the area like Bale. Sometimes it made him impossible to mark. I doubt whether you will ever see Lamela hit more than one or two long-range goals in ANY season.

Personally, if Bale ever became available again and there was even a slight chance we could get him back I would break the bank to get him. I think he would just walk back into this team. He struck fear into clubs and they often doubled up against him. Alli, Kane, and Bale together? Crikey, just let me dream!!!!!!!!!


Agreed.

He will go to City or Chelsea I think unless Ronaldo leaves Real.
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#39 User is offline   Notabadsquad 

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 06:42

Actually a better and fairer comparison is that of Firmino and Lamela.

I think the jury is just about still out if you look at the pair, in terms of who is the better all round contributor.

One provides boundless energy but in many respects Firmino is showing the class and goal touch that I think many hoped Lamela would bring. If he can add that and a more consistently good final ball then I think we would all be very happy.
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#40 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 08:41

Lets be honest, his price tag kills him, will we be saying the same things about N'Jie and Son ?
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