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Are Chelsea a title threat again? Chelsea 4 Man U 0 (23/10/16)

#1 User is offline   Mr. Greaves 

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 16:50

Fairly emphatic score-line so the question is - are Chelsea a realistic title threat again, or are United so far way from being one that they were no contest for Chelsea and flattered them by being walloped 4-0?
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#2 User is offline   Spurs scout 

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Posted 23 October 2016 - 17:04

View PostMr. Greaves, on 23 October 2016 - 16:50, said:

Fairly emphatic score-line so the question is - are Chelsea a realistic title threat again, or are United so far way from being one that they were no contest for Chelsea and flattered them by being walloped 4-0?

Judging by there performances in the last few weeks, you have to say yes. As for United I think they have spent badly, there front players lack pace and kind of old, I have seen Pogba play, he is not going to be the kind of player that turns them into title contenders because he is not a game changer like Payet,Silva , Hazard and Mane. They as a team look a real mess. There defenders are nowhere near as good as our defenders, you can argue we have the best defenders in the league, I don't see leaders in there back four.
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Posted 23 October 2016 - 19:26

View PostMr. Greaves, on 23 October 2016 - 16:50, said:

Fairly emphatic score-line so the question is - are Chelsea a realistic title threat again, or are United so far way from being one that they were no contest for Chelsea and flattered them by being walloped 4-0?


I would most certainly say a big yes, also it shows that (for me at least) JM is no longer the special one. :niceone:
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#4 User is offline   tomtom 

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 12:37

I once heard someone argue that a manager over a long period only ever makes a 10% difference to the team he manages and it is ultimately the players you have that decide it. There are times (new manager bounce) where it can be more than 10% but as a whole they can make you 10% better or 10% worse. Was an interesting theory, one I'm not sure if I subscribe to and one which falls apart when you consider the manager's input on which players are brought in or sold through transfers.

I don't think Mourinho is suddenly a bad manager, was only a couple of seasons ago he walked the league with Chelsea... But he alone wasn't going to fix Man Utd's general average-ness. They have some exciting players on paper like Rashford, Martial, Depay, Ibrahimovic, Shaw, Pogba, Mata + etc... but ultimately I don't think Pep would win the league with that team, or Klopp and I don't think Mourinho will either.

I said before the season started I thought Conte would win the league with Chelsea as I thought he was a very good manager who would sort out their leaky defence (their attacking talent has always been impressive IMO) and that they'd benefit hugely from not being in Europe. I'm slightly less convinced now than I was before the season started as he has thus far failed to bring in the defender(s) he wanted and has now switched them to a 3-5-2 which whilst it has brought immediate results I'm not sure can sustain them winning a title when teams work it out - it rarely fairs well in the PL over a longer period.

I think more than any other season in my memory top 4 and the league might be decided by what happens in January. There's a point separating 1st and 5th after 9 games. If Mourinho gets them firing again and has them there or thereabouts by Jan and spends wisely then anything is possible. If Chelsea manage to bring in the right defender then they could push on and challenge.
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#5 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 14:14

Can't argue with that, I thought Mourinho's prem experience would give him the edge. I've got to say I thought Kante was a good buy for Chavski though and although Stones is shaky he will thrive under Pep imo. I thought Pep might find the sustained pressure and competitive nature of the prem very different to what he's used to. I think Klopp has the benefit of a year under his belt and also no European competition is massive for him and Conte and can arguably be attributed as the difference at this stage. Once again there is something missing with Wang's Goon patrol and it could quite possibly be Ibrahimovich :rolleyes: or at least a recognised total striker designed for the prem who doesn't mind the cold weather, but as we know, they are not easy to find.

One more point, this years surprise package. If Leicester had kept Kante, they would be involved in the mix, there was more to that team than even now people care to admit and I would keep one eye on where they are because they have suddenly realised that life after Kante isn't so bad.

I've also got to mention Pogba, shocking money.
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#6 User is offline   Mr. Greaves 

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 14:33

On the Leicester point, I agree with you and thought they would remain in the mix this year - so many were just being churlish about their last season. Losing the ones that did has harmed them, and I thought there would be a domino effect but Vardy staying may have halted it.

Pretty sure though that competing in the CL and the PL will do them no favours, as it takes quite a few seasons to learn how to deal with that sort of thing (usually you cut your teeth in the EL), and to get the squad depth. That said, in Ranieri they have a manager who has CL experience and most teams into the EL first time don't have a manager who does.

Mourhinio still looks an odd fit for United, and not enough of the players he inherited are right for his style. Loved the stupid question put to him yesterday in the post match interview - 'did going a goal down in the first minute alter your game plan?'. As if his game plan would ever have been for that to happen!!
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#7 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 14:59

I think Mata may have to get his suitcase out of the loft again, Mourinho's very transparent charm offensive where his players are concerned is officially over :lmao:

The beauty of this season is that every week a big name manager has to squirm in front of the camera, it's priceless.
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#8 User is offline   willyid82 

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Posted 24 October 2016 - 17:11

I actually quite like conte, he seems a heart on sleeve kind of character even if a few dollar notes go missing up that sleeve.

I believe what he may struggle with this season is he has never really managed at the highest level at a consistent rate of matches before anyone points out champions league these are one off ties.

I think they will find it tough against the real top sides in our league because I look at there team and I still feel it's slow and unpredictable.

I think the longer worry for me is if he adapts chavski have endless pockets he could be very successful there. Let's hope not
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#9 User is offline   Notabadsquad 

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 11:01

No outstanding side this season thus far as the tightness of the table suggests so in answer yes, but no more than 4 or 5 teams.

Mourinho's star is beginning to flicker sonewhat and he needs players who in truth I don't think he has at United at the present time.

Case in point would be who in their team would get into a Premier League 11? If they win or even finish in the top 2/3 this season Mourinho would have done a good job.

I expected United to lose on Sunday so not surprised and drew nothing from it because United's issues are clear. Rooney on wane, Ibrahimovic still quality but 35, Pogba no better arguably than Alli (85 million pound more expensive) etc....

Chelsea, City, Liverpool, if they don't run out of legs - they might, Arsenal and possibly us - that pacy striker really is a massive miss in my opinion siyld be the contenders based in what I have seen so far this season
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#10 User is offline   Spurs scout 

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 12:10

View PostNotabadsquad, on 25 October 2016 - 11:01, said:

No outstanding side this season thus far as the tightness of the table suggests so in answer yes, but no more than 4 or 5 teams.

Mourinho's star is beginning to flicker sonewhat and he needs players who in truth I don't think he has at United at the present time.

Case in point would be who in their team would get into a Premier League 11? If they win or even finish in the top 2/3 this season Mourinho would have done a good job.

I expected United to lose on Sunday so not surprised and drew nothing from it because United's issues are clear. Rooney on wane, Ibrahimovic still quality but 35, Pogba no better arguably than Alli (85 million pound more expensive) etc....

Chelsea, City, Liverpool, if they don't run out of legs - they might, Arsenal and possibly us - that pacy striker really is a massive miss in my opinion siyld be the contenders based in what I have seen so far this season

The exciting thing about our club is we are only one top creative player away from being as good as Liverpool and Mancity. I don't see any of the other top sides that has a better pairing at the back and in midfield with the likes of wanyama and Dembele. On there day they are both BEAST's and Alli has the potential to being a top goal scoring midfielder.
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Posted 25 October 2016 - 12:59

I think we are as good as any one we just seem to lack consistency or go of the rails a bit at times. :niceone:
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#12 User is offline   Notabadsquad 

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 14:50

View PostSpurs scout, on 25 October 2016 - 12:10, said:

The exciting thing about our club is we are only one top creative player away from being as good as Liverpool and Mancity. I don't see any of the other top sides that has a better pairing at the back and in midfield with the likes of wanyama and Dembele. On there day they are both BEAST's and Alli has the potential to being a top goal scoring midfielder.


I think we are what you say and a 3rd striker away.
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#13 User is offline   Mr. Greaves 

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 21:58

View PostSpurs scout, on 25 October 2016 - 12:10, said:

The exciting thing about our club is we are only one top creative player away from being as good as Liverpool and Mancity. I don't see any of the other top sides that has a better pairing at the back and in midfield with the likes of wanyama and Dembele. On there day they are both BEAST's and Alli has the potential to being a top goal scoring midfielder.

I think our first choice defense us as good as anyone's in the PL, might even be the best. We fall down in the attacking areas though. You are more or less right, but I think we are two players at least short. Damned hard to find them, and then it becomes a question of whether our tactical style / Pochettino's thinking really works at the top level. I say it doesn't, but a genuinely genius player creating and scoring might make up for it.
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#14 User is offline   tomtom 

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 22:36

What I'd do to see Bale and Modders dropped into our current squad.
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#15 User is offline   Mr. Greaves 

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Posted 25 October 2016 - 22:42

View Posttomtom, on 25 October 2016 - 22:36, said:

What I'd do to see Bale and Modders dropped into our current squad.

Indeed, but he would they be used? Do they have the work ethic of running about pressing?
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#16 User is offline   tomtom 

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 09:27

Bale definitely could fit into how we play. Modric might not press but he'd work wonders on dictating our tempo and chance creation.
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#17 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 16:46

View PostMr. Greaves, on 25 October 2016 - 22:42, said:

Indeed, but he would they be used? Do they have the work ethic of running about pressing?


Modric would, he's an honest player on that front. Judging by the euro's , Bale would do it in big games but not against lesser teams, to do this a player has to be very very very good, and he is.
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#18 User is offline   ArmchairSpurs 

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 19:42

Yes, Chelsea a big threat, and I hate to say it, but so are Woolwich.
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#19 User is offline   No easy games 

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 11:31

So long as Milner can carry on being a passable left-back, I think Liverpool are the favourites. They have played some top teams away from home and come home with points. Have gone to Chelsea and Arsenal and got all three points, and drew with us. We've had our tough games largely at home i.e. City and Liverpool.
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#20 User is offline   tomtom 

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 14:13

View PostNo easy games, on 28 October 2016 - 11:31, said:

So long as Milner can carry on being a passable left-back, I think Liverpool are the favourites. They have played some top teams away from home and come home with points. Have gone to Chelsea and Arsenal and got all three points, and drew with us. We've had our tough games largely at home i.e. City and Liverpool.


It's not so much how you do against the top teams (though they have been impressive) that counts, it's more how you do against the Burnleys + etc. At this stage of the season no one looks like running away with it. Closest the prem has ever been after 9 games apparently.

Not having Europe to worry about really does give Chelsea and Liverpool an edge though. Maybe it's good Liverpool have the added distraction of the League Cup for a little longer?
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