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Other managers De Boer, Klopp, AVB, Koeman + etc...

#1 User is offline   ComeOnYouSpurs 

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 20:23

de Boer sacked already at inter after a pretty terrible start. After f***ing up the league for Ajax on the final day and now this, I for one am over the moon we picked poch over him
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#2 User is offline   tomtom 

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 20:42

Inter is a mess so I'm not prepared to judge him too harshly on it but he needs to prove himself in a tougher job than Ajax in the Dutch league to regain his rep as a top young coach.
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#3 User is offline   ComeOnYouSpurs 

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 22:08

They spent over £100mil in the summer though on some decent players and sit 13th in a poor league. Won't right him off but I'm happy we chose poch over him
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#4 User is offline   Mr. Greaves 

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 22:50

Inter are 12th at the moment.

Everyone in entitled to their opinion COYS and I am happy you are so over the moon about Pochettino, but you make it sound though that FDB is a total knob.

Inter were 4th last year, 8th the year before. This year they were 3rd after the 6th game, but in the 5 since they lost 4 which isn't good, but sackable?

FDB might have bombed here or might have won the PL last year. F***ing the league for Ajax (something he didn't do at least 4 times) isn't too far removed from Pochettino failing to win it last year here when on a plate only to end up snatching 3rd from the jaws of 2nd. My money would be on Inter being 18th right now under Pochettino.
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#5 User is offline   tomtom 

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 23:09

Lol. Ajax are favourites. We were predicted 6th. Slightly different scenario.

I think De Boer could be very good but he hasn't proved it yet.
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#6 User is offline   Mr. Greaves 

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 23:23

It is a bit unfair to say FDB has "it' to prove as he did things with Ajax that were never done before. Easier league yes, but he has broken records.
“The game is about glory. Winning trophies with style. Not throwing away cups simply to get into a money-spinning competition to make owners richer. ” Danny Blanchflower (sort of)
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#7 User is offline   ComeOnYouSpurs 

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 02:01

View PostMr. Greaves, on 01 November 2016 - 22:50, said:

Inter are 12th at the moment.

Everyone in entitled to their opinion COYS as nd I am happy you are so over the moon about Pochettino, but you make it sound though that FDB is a total knob.

Inter were 4th last year, 8th the year before. This year they were 3rd after the 6th game, but in the 5 since they lost 4 which isn't good, but sackable?

FDB might have bombed here or might have won the PL last year. F***ing the league for Ajax (something he didn't do at least 4 times) isn't too far removed from Pochettino failing to win it last year here when on a plate only to end up snatching 3rd from the jaws of 2nd. My money would be on Inter being 18th right now under Pochettino.


Place I looked before had it wrong on the GD but 12th/ 13th, big difference.

No I have nothing against de boer, seems like a good character but I was just pointing out that back at the crossroad we had when it came down to appointing poch or de boer, I feel like we made the right decision. £110 mil spent this year by inter with no real outgoings and sitting so low down in a poor league can't be good - our fortunes could well have been a lot worse had we gone down his route instead.

Who knows what's going on behind the scenes at inter, I haven't looked into it. Maybe they weren't his players that he wanted that all that money was spent on but they have some real talent in that side, trigger happy maybe by the people higher up but to be so low down with a team of that stature can't be good.

Ajax f***ing up the league on the last day is similar to us losing 2nd but on a much bigger scale. They were playing a team already relegated (similar to us) but the quality gaps between the teams is so much greater. The odds on them winning the league on the final day were something like 1/10 if I remember correctly. The team they played, are now bombing in the league below now which is just an idea of their level; in the league last season I remember them getting smashed nearly every week and for ajax to not beat them was a massive shock. He left his job pretty much straight away after that which probably speaks volumes.

Poch is regarded as one of the best young managers by pretty much everyone in football, so to say he'd be 18th with inter is pretty ridiculous. I hope you're not a betting man, you'd lose a lot of money with bets like that lol.

I'd like to see de boer at a prem club to see how he gets on.
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#8 User is offline   Spurs scout 

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 16:34

View PostMr. Greaves, on 01 November 2016 - 23:23, said:

It is a bit unfair to say FDB has "it' to prove as he did things with Ajax that were never done before. Easier league yes, but he has broken records.

Dutch league is not the strongest league to judge, because even Steve Mclaren looked like a tactical genius by winning the league with a unfashionable side. As for you not rating Poch and thinking he would do a worse job then F de boer , your watching our development as a team under him with blinkers on, I don't remember journalists and pundits talking up our title hopes in a serious way by not sniggering or mockying our club, I heard a former Arsenal Pundit saying he sees our club as rivals to win the league with Arsenal, who would of thought, our team has come a long way. I just think you have a agenda against him because he is not a fashionable name. If POCH go's it will be to a club much bigger then ours, Be careful what you wish for.
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#9 User is offline   Flying_Dutchman 

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 18:59

Steve McLaren was always thought to be an idiot here, but the results spoke for the team.
FdB never should've gone to italy. Inter hasn't been something since Mourinho team there, 10 years ago or smth.
Last year FdB didn't f*ck up. PSV had a better team & still he almost won. He can't help it that his team loses points on the final day of a RELEGATED team. (reminds me of something)

I don't think Poch was a bad choice, or that FdB could've done better, since poch is doing an outstanding job. But judging FdB on this Inter story is just not fair.

:boxing:
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#10 User is offline   Mr. Greaves 

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 23:07

View PostSpurs scout, on 02 November 2016 - 16:34, said:

Dutch league is not the strongest league to judge, because even Steve Mclaren looked like a tactical genius by winning the league with a unfashionable side. As for you not rating Poch and thinking he would do a worse job then F de boer , your watching our development as a team under him with blinkers on, I don't remember journalists and pundits talking up our title hopes in a serious way by not sniggering or mockying our club, I heard a former Arsenal Pundit saying he sees our club as rivals to win the league with Arsenal, who would of thought, our team has come a long way. I just think you have a agenda against him because he is not a fashionable name. If POCH go's it will be to a club much bigger then ours, Be careful what you wish for.

It is all fashion mate. Last year in the worst quality PL there has ever been where two of the top four didn't come out to play ever and the other two did it now and again, we scraped third and there was a big rush of praise from pundits who change their mind every game they watch and praise someone else. Finish above A rsenal? Leave off.

I read your posts and sometimes think you make sense but your reluctance to see what is in front of you amuses me. How can you not see the limitations of Pochettino? He has one idea only in that head and it is 'Biesla', the problem is he doesn't have the ability to make if work like Simeone, Guardiolio, Klopp or any of the others who use the same principles. Teams in the PL took a while to cotton onto how to deal with the 'press' but now they have Pochettino is stumped. He priorities stupidly, picks weird line-ups that don't work, and makes imbecilic substitutions.

Should we sack him I will be pleased, but it will change little because we have owners who are interested in the money first and foremost and not remotely interested in the football. They will only appointment someone else useless- the two they got right they booted. Just to put the matter straight, my low esteem for Pochettino has got nothing to do with his not being a big name - that doesn't impress me. At the time I felt, and still do, that Sherwood should have been given the next full season and allowed to shape the squad how he saw fit. I didn't want a new manager at all.
“The game is about glory. Winning trophies with style. Not throwing away cups simply to get into a money-spinning competition to make owners richer. ” Danny Blanchflower (sort of)
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#11 User is offline   Spurs scout 

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 16:57

View PostMr. Greaves, on 02 November 2016 - 23:07, said:

It is all fashion mate. Last year in the worst quality PL there has ever been where two of the top four didn't come out to play ever and the other two did it now and again, we scraped third and there was a big rush of praise from pundits who change their mind every game they watch and praise someone else. Finish above A rsenal? Leave off.

I read your posts and sometimes think you make sense but your reluctance to see what is in front of you amuses me. How can you not see the limitations of Pochettino? He has one idea only in that head and it is 'Biesla', the problem is he doesn't have the ability to make if work like Simeone, Guardiolio, Klopp or any of the others who use the same principles. Teams in the PL took a while to cotton onto how to deal with the 'press' but now they have Pochettino is stumped. He priorities stupidly, picks weird line-ups that don't work, and makes imbecilic substitutions.

Should we sack him I will be pleased, but it will change little because we have owners who are interested in the money first and foremost and not remotely interested in the football. They will only appointment someone else useless- the two they got right they booted. Just to put the matter straight, my low esteem for Pochettino has got nothing to do with his not being a big name - that doesn't impress me. At the time I felt, and still do, that Sherwood should have been given the next full season and allowed to shape the squad how he saw fit. I didn't want a new manager at all.

Yes I can see his faults , your forgetting he remodelled the mess which AVB left us with by getting rid of the expensive weak attitude players signings and using a young core, some from our Academy and others cheap buys like Alli, and changing Diers position witch at the time was a masterstroke , and working as a team. If i have to be honest I looked at the team and thought, this team is not good enough to get into Europe but somehow he made everyone buy into his ideas and surprised a few by how well we was doing. you talk about everyone else being poor last year, its not our fault our team was doing better then the so called better mangers with resourses. If the top 4 was below par then Arsenal and Liverpool are the ones that missed the trick not us, our run came late into the title race, it was Leicetercity's to lose and you know that. As the season planed out they was freakishly winning every game, so we never really had a chance. The way you was taking , you would of thought we finished below our realistic expectations.
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#12 User is offline   tomtom 

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 20:20

The season we qualified for CL under Harry we got 70 points (same as last season) scoring less goals and conceding several more.

I can see the argument that the title was easier to win last season than before but I really don't understand how you can view our highest prem position and 2nd highest ever points total a failure and claim the manager who achieved it, breaking several club records in the process would do worse than someone else in another league or that they'd do better than him here. There's literally no logic to the argument.
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#13 User is offline   Mr. Greaves 

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 00:02

View Posttomtom, on 03 November 2016 - 20:20, said:

The season we qualified for CL under Harry we got 70 points (same as last season) scoring less goals and conceding several more.

I can see the argument that the title was easier to win last season than before but I really don't understand how you can view our highest prem position and 2nd highest ever points total a failure and claim the manager who achieved it, breaking several club records in the process would do worse than someone else in another league or that they'd do better than him here. There's literally no logic to the argument.

I made that point purely in response to the 'logic' in another post in which someone expressed happiness at having Pochettino not FDB, because two years later, FDB had just been sacked after losing 4 out of the last 5 games in a different league.

I think it is unfair to present what I was saying in the light you have.
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#14 User is offline   Mr. Greaves 

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 00:18

View PostSpurs scout, on 03 November 2016 - 16:57, said:

Yes I can see his faults , your forgetting he remodelled the mess which AVB left us with by getting rid of the expensive weak attitude players signings and using a young core, some from our Academy and others cheap buys like Alli, and changing Diers position witch at the time was a masterstroke , and working as a team. If i have to be honest I looked at the team and thought, this team is not good enough to get into Europe but somehow he made everyone buy into his ideas and surprised a few by how well we was doing. you talk about everyone else being poor last year, its not our fault our team was doing better then the so called better mangers with resourses. If the top 4 was below par then Arsenal and Liverpool are the ones that missed the trick not us, our run came late into the title race, it was Leicetercity's to lose and you know that. As the season planed out they was freakishly winning every game, so we never really had a chance. The way you was taking , you would of thought we finished below our realistic expectations.


So many points.

Dier frequently played in the role at Sporting Lisbon, Pochettino knew that, tried him and it worked. Big deal.

The mess of a squad wasn't exactly AVB's fault and anyone could see who needed to be sold. Levy had to agree and as they were coming into the last year of their contracts, selling had to happen then or take huge losses. Pochettino did the right thing, but no genius stroke. Sherwood certainly knew who to get shot of, and most of us here did to. If I was paid £3-5m a year like Pochettino is, I would expect him to be able to do what any of us here could in seeing the dross and punting it out. Not that I think he got that totally right.

Alli had been on our radar pre-season Pochettino, and I am told Dier was too. Since Pochettino arrived, he has bought well and bought poorly too.

Until this season Onomah is about the only Academy player he has promoted. Few know why.

How do Liverpool come into it, they were a number of places lower than us the season before. We went from 5th to 3rd when two of the 4 above us didn't show up at all and the other two only did in dribs and drabs. The way I am talking is that what we did was nothing special under the circumstances. The way you are talking is that it was remarkable.
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#15 User is offline   tomtom 

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 11:11

AVB just replaced Sven managing Shanghai. £11M a year!! I never thought he was as bad as some did on here but no way is he worth that based on his track record since leaving Porto
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#16 User is offline   Mr. Greaves 

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 14:08

The thing about AVB is that he obviously gives one h*ll of an impressive interview. Talks a good game, but the reality doesn't match up. I thought he was hard done by at Chelsea, but 18 months with us was more than enough to change that view.
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#17 User is offline   tomtom 

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 15:47

still think with a bit of humility and some more experience he could be a damn fine manager in the future and in some ways he was let down here but that's old ground we don't need to go back over...

£11M a year! That makes him 3rd highest paid manager in the world apparently. More than Zidane, level with Ancelotti and only behind Pep and Jose. Madness.
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Posted 04 November 2016 - 21:36

And for all that is he worth it?
Before You Judge My Life, My Past, Or My Character,

Walk In My Shoes, Walk The Path I Have Traveled, Live My Sorrow,
My Doubts, My Fear, My Pain, And My Laughter.

REMEMBER

Everyone Has A Story,
When You've Lived My Life,Then you Can Judge Me.
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#19 User is offline   willyid82 

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 22:13

View PostMr. Greaves, on 04 November 2016 - 14:08, said:

The thing about AVB is that he obviously gives one h*ll of an impressive interview. Talks a good game, but the reality doesn't match up. I thought he was hard done by at Chelsea, but 18 months with us was more than enough to change that view.

His agent must be fookin brilliant
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#20 User is offline   tomtom 

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 17:42

Koeman has come out and said that Lukaku should leave Everton if he wants to achieve his potential.

It's one thing to think it (and it is probably true) but it's another to say it to the press. It sends out all the wrong signals for a club who I'm sure have aspirations not dissimilar to ours of breaking into the PL elite, and for it to be coming from the manager they're hoping will get them there must be warning signs for them that he has no intention of sticking around either.

I'm a fan of Koeman, I think he's been very very good whilst he's been in England but this for me will drive a wedge between him and the fans in the same way Sherwood and Ferdinand saying Dembele could be good enough to leave us for Real Madrid did. If Poch came out and said Kane should leave us to reach his full potential I'd be fuming.

You do wonder why some managers don't just keep their mouths shut. Harry might well still be managing us if he didn't have verbal diarrhoea, Sherwood too.

With all that in mind... I'd take Lukaku here in a heartbeat. My wish for the last window was for us to offer £50-60M for him when he put in his transfer request and said he wanted CL football. I think we'd be top of the league and possibly top of our CL group if we had.
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