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Other managers De Boer, Klopp, AVB, Koeman + etc...

#41 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 16:18

Good job we didn't get him in to sort out our messy dressing room then eh ?
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#42 User is offline   Mr. Greaves 

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 16:37

Maybe not, dear old Tim would have been great at it if he had been backed though.
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#43 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 17:32

I doubt it very much, his defence was tripe and I remember sorting that out was high on the fans "wishlist" when Poch arrived. I think he nailed that one. Served up a golden boot winner last season for all his attacking ignorance. If Tim stays we would all still be moaning about Adebayor turning up late for pre-season.

I think you will just have to admit that Poch ain't as bad as you'd thought, and Levy picking him ahead of De Boer was probably the correct choice.
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#44 User is offline   Mr. Greaves 

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 18:32

We were only taking about sorting out the messy dressing room weren't we, not his tactical ideas. Sherwood had a very clear view on who didn't give a tuppenny toss I think, and would have booted them out providing Levy backed him.

I haven't seen much in Pochettino to change my mind, and the fact that last year was the poorest PL ever where two of the big tour didn't turn up at all and the other two didn't turn up regularly (three of the big four changed managers as a result) certainly seems to have clouded a lot of people's views. He has all the flaws I pointed out, and gas displayed them all.

Kane is a natural who works very hard to improve himself, Pochettino hasn't coached and brilliance into him. It is not a crime to recognise that Pochettino seems unable to coach attacking play, his focus is on defense where he seems to think ball watching is fine.
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#45 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 19:07

View PostMr. Greaves, on 12 November 2016 - 18:32, said:

We were only taking about sorting out the messy dressing room weren't we, not his tactical ideas. Sherwood had a very clear view on who didn't give a tuppenny toss I think, and would have booted them out providing Levy backed him.

I haven't seen much in Pochettino to change my mind, and the fact that last year was the poorest PL ever where two of the big tour didn't turn up at all and the other two didn't turn up regularly (three of the big four changed managers as a result) certainly seems to have clouded a lot of people's views. He has all the flaws I pointed out, and gas displayed them all.

Kane is a natural who works very hard to improve himself, Pochettino hasn't coached and brilliance into him. It is not a crime to recognise that Pochettino seems unable to coach attacking play, his focus is on defense where he seems to think ball watching is fine.


Yet for all his flaws and if's and but's about Sherwood (who's done nothing to gain your support by the way) he still remains far better than you can bring yourself to admit. It's now got you heading down an avenue that he just sends his players out to do what they want, sorry mate but that's laughable.

The prem may have seen bigger clubs under perform, but that will always need to be the case for anyone else to win it. It's a childish excuse along the lines of "you only played well because we were s***" and if an opponent said that to another it would be laughed off the park. You can make your opponent play poor it's your job to stop them playing well.

Kane didn't pick himself, Dier didn't tell Poch he wanted to play in midfield, refusing to acknowledge the part Poch has played in the good things doesn't make for good reading, it just smacks of a bitter attitude. Come on mate give it up, he's better than you wanted him to be.
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#46 User is offline   journeyman 

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Posted 13 November 2016 - 09:52

Sad to say all people on what ever site or what ever club they support there will always be difference of opinions. I suppose at times it may seem like it to some that who ever we have at spurs is never right for a number of various reasons, will we ever get a manager totally right for us? I doubt it it, but lets try and take the positives out of what we have, of course Im not saying that the negatives should be forgotten either.

But you will have attacking managers, defensive managers, those who play for boring 0-0's, those who "park the bus" is there the perfect manager? :niceone:
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#47 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 13 November 2016 - 10:45

Difference of opinion isn't sad, it's an opinion that's sad, not the fact that it differs.

A forum is a place to thrash out opinions, it's good to be open minded enough to change an opinion, it's also good to stand by a set of opinions. It's frustrating when opinion jumps back and forth depending on each weeks result. It's frustrating when an opinion isn't changed when it obviously has been quashed. It also doesn't help that football operates on a lot of myths and leaked stories that either become gospel or fake to suit an opinion.

It's difficult to step away or just agree for the sake of harmony if you believe an opinion to be garbage. Liberalism at it's finest.

The perfect manager doesn't exist, but what we have cannot be labelled an idiot and expect that opinion to not be challenged. It will eventually be the case when a parting of the waves comes about, but starting off at an end point seems rather morbid to me.
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#48 User is offline   journeyman 

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Posted 13 November 2016 - 14:59

Its interesting you say that what we have is not garbage and basicaqlly any such opinion has to be challenged Why? ones opinion is what we have is garbage in their eyes but not yours so who is right? it comes down to the fact we all have opinions, but are we right to challengs others for having their views just because they differ from the views of ourselves? Just wondered thats all, but I guess its human nature to defend something we see as ok and others dont.
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#49 User is offline   ArmchairSpurs 

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Posted 13 November 2016 - 15:06

View Postjourneyman, on 13 November 2016 - 14:59, said:

Its interesting you say that what we have is not garbage and basicaqlly any such opinion has to be challenged Why? ones opinion is what we have is garbage in their eyes but not yours so who is right? it comes down to the fact we all have opinions, but are we right to challengs others for having their views just because they differ from the views of ourselves? Just wondered thats all, but I guess its human nature to defend something we see as ok and others dont.


I agree Journo. It's best to put forward a counter point-of-view if anyone disagrees with another posters opinion, rather than say "you're wrong". You might think that they are wrong, but it might be that they are, in fact, right. Not one of us occupies the moral high ground.
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#50 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 13 November 2016 - 16:03

That's right, opinions should live or die on the boards. Not one person should be offended if their opinion is challenged, isn't that how debate operates ?

The problem is that when an opinion is way off the mark and it gets challenged, the liberalism gets all upset and defends that opinion regardless of it's ability or not to stand up. Then we get all this hippy stuff about one opinion is not better than another. Thus it becomes personnel off the back of feeling sorry or guilty for slapping down a poor opinion and it falls all the way down to a popularity contest with a total disregard to the content of the original opinion. Then the nasty challenger is painted as the panto villain and the poor opinion lives to poke it's sorry head out from under it's slimy rock another day.

I'd rather eliminate poor opinion than defend someone's right to have it, that's how fascists survive. But, every time we end up at this point, me in some way defending my challenge.

Answer me one question, is challenging an opinion wanted on this site ?
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#51 User is offline   ArmchairSpurs 

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Posted 13 November 2016 - 16:39

View PostYidio Yidio, on 13 November 2016 - 16:03, said:

That's right, opinions should live or die on the boards. Not one person should be offended if their opinion is challenged, isn't that how debate operates ?

The problem is that when an opinion is way off the mark and it gets challenged, the liberalism gets all upset and defends that opinion regardless of it's ability or not to stand up. Then we get all this hippy stuff about one opinion is not better than another. Thus it becomes personnel off the back of feeling sorry or guilty for slapping down a poor opinion and it falls all the way down to a popularity contest with a total disregard to the content of the original opinion. Then the nasty challenger is painted as the panto villain and the poor opinion lives to poke it's sorry head out from under it's slimy rock another day.

I'd rather eliminate poor opinion than defend someone's right to have it, that's how fascists survive. But, every time we end up at this point, me in some way defending my challenge.

Answer me one question, is challenging an opinion wanted on this site ?


I cannot make my mind up as to if you have posted the above as a wind-up...
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#52 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 13 November 2016 - 16:43

Try and pick the bones out of it and we'll see, if it's poor opinion challenge it
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#53 User is offline   Mr. Greaves 

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Posted 13 November 2016 - 17:25

That all sounds very noble YY but what it ignores is that when an opinion is given here usually it is given with examples, rarely otherwise. If that opinion doesn't suit it gets shouted down, often with personal tones added - 'bitterness" being the current popular one - and with inconvenient points ignored in favour of making completely different ones. You like winning, which is fine, but that style is not debating. When that gets criticised you play the 'panto villain' card as you put it, defending the aggressive style of putting down views you won't accept.
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#54 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 14 November 2016 - 01:15

I'll admit to some of that if you will.
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#55 User is offline   Roger Redknapp 

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Posted 14 November 2016 - 04:06

Wow we are all getting it off the chest here blimey.

In a good way! It's civil and this is progressive, forums much better like this.


Did I read this right though YY?

View PostYidio Yidio, on 13 November 2016 - 16:03, said:

I'd rather eliminate poor opinion than defend someone's right to have it, that's how fascists survive.


Can't work out if your claiming yourself to be a fascist or someone else.

I think you could almost draw a straight line between Greaves me, you and parks in that order in terms of a Pochetino spectrum.

I'm quite sold on 6/49 losses and the reshape over 700+ days or so, but there as still niggling knots I want ironing out of Spurs back.

I think I'm simply more patient and less flippant and reactive to Spurs stress lately. Admittedly as there's been less.

Pre Redknapp there wasn't a belief for me like the one that grew with Bale etc, post Redknapp and in conjunction with needing a forum to vent I think Spurs until last season had me in a bad way. A long period with only handfuls of truly enjoyable games.

Things have changed for the better.

But I haven't liked the taste in the mouth from not scoring or playing even remotely attractively of late.

I have no doubt we will get through it, but champions league and retaining this standing is paramount and I'm worried we've had our allocated loss of form and there's no room left now for an April may dip.

Which means Janssen, Nkoudou and Sissoko have to provide something eventually this year.
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#56 User is offline   ArmchairSpurs 

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Posted 14 November 2016 - 07:42

View PostYidio Yidio, on 13 November 2016 - 16:03, said:

I'd rather eliminate poor opinion than defend someone's right to have it, that's how fascists survive.


Roger picked up on this sentence, and it troubled me when I first read Yidio's post. Sounds like the words of a Fascist, not one trying to eradicate them. Maybe YY is on a mission to cull all posters who's opinions do not match his. You want genuine debate Yidio, you want posters to challenge each other's conceptions, then may I suggest that you do not appoint yourself the judge, jury and executioner.
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#57 User is offline   journeyman 

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Posted 14 November 2016 - 08:23

:clap: :clap: :clap:
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#58 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 14 November 2016 - 08:36

View PostArmchairSpurs, on 14 November 2016 - 07:42, said:

Roger picked up on this sentence, and it troubled me when I first read Yidio's post. Sounds like the words of a Fascist, not one trying to eradicate them. Maybe YY is on a mission to cull all posters who's opinions do not match his. You want genuine debate Yidio, you want posters to challenge each other's conceptions, then may I suggest that you do not appoint yourself the judge, jury and executioner.


Once again, I'll stop doing what you claim I do, if you stop weighing in like the sheriff just walked into the saloon. You do love to get involved with a big old wooden spoon.
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#59 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 14 November 2016 - 09:09

View PostRoger Redknapp, on 14 November 2016 - 04:06, said:

Wow we are all getting it off the chest here blimey.

In a good way! It's civil and this is progressive, forums much better like this.


Did I read this right though YY?



Can't work out if your claiming yourself to be a fascist or someone else.

I think you could almost draw a straight line between Greaves me, you and parks in that order in terms of a Pochetino spectrum.

I'm quite sold on 6/49 losses and the reshape over 700+ days or so, but there as still niggling knots I want ironing out of Spurs back.

I think I'm simply more patient and less flippant and reactive to Spurs stress lately. Admittedly as there's been less.

Pre Redknapp there wasn't a belief for me like the one that grew with Bale etc, post Redknapp and in conjunction with needing a forum to vent I think Spurs until last season had me in a bad way. A long period with only handfuls of truly enjoyable games.

Things have changed for the better.

But I haven't liked the taste in the mouth from not scoring or playing even remotely attractively of late.

I have no doubt we will get through it, but champions league and retaining this standing is paramount and I'm worried we've had our allocated loss of form and there's no room left now for an April may dip.

Which means Janssen, Nkoudou and Sissoko have to provide something eventually this year.


These days Roger, I'm more than happy to read your posts. They don't contain the overly negative (this word isn't yet properly banned) or bitterness (neither is this) extremities and actually do on the whole actually support (not supposed to question this) the club.

The problem before was that many couldn't air their critical views of the team through fear they would then be grabbed and over exaggerated, this will be denied, because nothing is ever admitted. The line you wish to draw through the 4 of us has Greaves further away with the rest of us closer together. You said that you were in a bad place and it's credit to you for recognising that. You often told me I only respect those I wish to, but as I hope you've noticed, since I now see your posts as far more honest and not working behind the agenda of having an initial hatred of the manager, I'm happy to give them the respect they are rightly due.

If you remember, Parks never said Poch was great, he just said he must be given time. Focussed on the positives, kept his faith intact. In short, he refused to allow the bitterness in. I'm sure you now see that he has some complaints over recent performances. It appears to me that the three of us are far more comfortable discussing the negative points because we can easily recognise the good points with the appreciation they deserve. If stubbornness drags every thread to the extreme of sacking an idiot manager or selling the club because we've had a terrible 16 yrs of ENIC, it becomes frustrating. No inch is given, so it always goes that far.

I will stop now, I've said my bit. But hand on heart, I find your posts far more interesting of late just because your judgements (yes, we all do it) are much fairer.
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#60 User is offline   ArmchairSpurs 

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Posted 14 November 2016 - 13:40

View PostYidio Yidio, on 14 November 2016 - 08:36, said:

Once again, I'll stop doing what you claim I do, if you stop weighing in like the sheriff just walked into the saloon. You do love to get involved with a big old wooden spoon.


I see no debate in that reply of yours, just more mud-slinging.
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