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Alledged Russian poisoning

#1 User is offline   journeyman 

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 18:42

What are peoples views opinions of this? Also what do you think to May's response, also is she actually right in her accusations, IE is she also complying to the treaty that we also are signed up to? :niceone:

At this moment there are several scanarios, but I think that by what I know we have not actually done things by the book either.
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Posted 14 March 2018 - 22:51

The problem is that Russia are never going to come back with any other reply, so what else happens ? I do think that the antagonising has been fairly blatant across many areas and think something needed to change, so fair play to May.
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Posted 15 March 2018 - 11:34

I also think that and agree with you. But the one thing that baffles me is the fact that by this treaty we are signed upto re chemical weapons, we are supposed to give who ever in this case Russia 10 days to resond May gave about 26/30 hours, also we should by this treaty send them samples, or some sort of evidence, and I am baffled why she has not done this.
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Posted 16 March 2018 - 11:46

now corbyn says was hitler to blame for the blitz, that man is not fit to sit in parliment, let alone lead a party even his own are now turning against him.
He wont join the rest and blame russia, he doubts hitler was at fault for the war bombings, sided with IRA, hehzbolah, in other words he seems to side with everyone except his country, he's a traitor and should be locked in the castle and the key thrown away.
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Posted 16 March 2018 - 12:28

It's his job to be the opposite, and can never stand 100% behind a decision of the opposition. Unfortunately, it just comes across as playing devils advocate on many occasions and it doesn't take much thought to just disagree with everything.

I'm not sure how damaging it would be if a party leader stood up and said they were fully behind something the opposition said or proposed, but in the recent history of divisive politics that were have had to endure, it wouldn't half be a welcome change.
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Posted 16 March 2018 - 16:49

I agree re opposition, but you should put political points scoring to one side when the PM is standing up for the country, and even his own ministers agree, he's crossed the ribican for me now, not that I would have ever voted for him or his party. he's not fit for position in my eye's.
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#7 User is offline   tomtom 

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 10:35

View Postjourneyman, on 16 March 2018 - 11:46, said:

now corbyn says was hitler to blame for the blitz,

That article was satire Journo. He's never said anything like it. Got to be careful with the Daily Heil
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Posted 24 March 2018 - 19:25

Yep was aware of that but lets face it the guy has duped a load of yougsters into believeing his empty promises, he really is not fit to lead a party, let alone the country.

Ive been around a lot of years and have seen and heard a lot of cr@p from such people, he wants to put his brain in gear befor he opens his mouth. To many conflicts caused by these stupid people. Now look at the latest he's sacked a minister for wanting a second referendum, and rightly so, but what is up with ALL POLATICIANS? we had a fair and democratic vote to leave the corrupt eu what is it that people cant except? when you have a vote there is always winners and loosers, sadly these people are put in by by the electorate to do our bidding, so when we have a fair and democratic result from a nation wide referendum why cant they just accept the fact what gives them the right to say we dont know what we are doing? we are probaly more astute than all of them put together.

Look at the falklands a war caused because a pig headed primminister didnt listen. sorry a bit off track but the whole lot make me very cross.The nation voted to leave the eu to take back control of our borders, our fishing rights, our own laws, now we have this toss pot government allowing a foreign country to make our new blue passports, the french, germans, spamish, italian, and greek nearly everyone make their own, we will have certain things implanted in our passports that are a means of detection etc now we have to give them to another country, time for the revolution, stand up for our rights, our country. Im sick of hearing about the human rights of illegal immigrants, what about our human rights in our own country? or dont they count. I still say the best person in parliment (and he failed) was guy fawkes :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:
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Posted 28 March 2018 - 13:06

Mike ! i dont think there is any doubt regarding russian involvement in this.....! although they will deny it.

The russians do things differently to our own government..........! particularly regarding their traitors.

When a russian spy turns traitor they are aware of the consequences and cannot hide behind protection of the country they have decided to live in.

He should have asked for more protection and secrecy of his abode.

As i said the russians do things differently than us.

Google ....Andrei Chikatilo ?

Mass murderer and r*pist of 53 children and women.

Shot in the head ! Executed.........Over with.

Had this had happened in this country the british taxpayer would be paying for him to be imprisoned in this country until he dies.

Having said all that i dont think the russians should hunt down and attempt to kill their ex citizens living in our country.
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Posted 28 March 2018 - 15:06

Most British politicians tend to agree it's Russia behind it. Obviously Trump initially had doubts hence sacking his secretary of state Rex Tillerson after he sided with Theresa May... only for Trump to do a 180 and back May after massive pressure from the British government. Many viewed his initial reluctance as further evidence (after the whole Russian election fraud stuff) that Trump was in the Kremlin's pocket. The government have also pressured various other governments in the UN to come forward and condemn Russia and kick out their diplomats.

Conspiracy theories aside, facts are the only independent people who are researching the nerve agent (the OPCW) are up to two weeks away from being able to reveal their findings, so considering they're the world experts it is slightly odd the British government claimed to know within a day.

I don't think Corbyn did anything wrong. The government refused to share their evidence of it being Russia with Corbyn, hence him being reticent initially to blame them. He has since obviously seen enough/buckled under huge media pressure to state there's a case to answer for. We all know politicians often have agendas, so for him to present a nuanced case of "I've not seen evidence, it could be Russia and if it is we need to act, but let's not rush ahead of ourselves and start a war before we have all the facts" was refreshing... predictably the media disgracefully tried to turn him into a traitor for trying not to start a war before he knew the facts.

Amongst the people who are presenting an argument that it might not actually be Russia is former British diplomat Craig Murray, who has recently said that the politicians who are saying it's Russia are the same ones who swore there were WMDs in Iraq. He has some interesting arguments.

http://www.craigmurr...iraqi-wmd-scam/

He also recently quoted a Cornell University Chemistry professor who said Novichoks could be made by anyone and to instantly say it's Russia was b******s.

Conspiracy theorists believe it's all an excuse to make a land grab on the Russian oligarchs in London, despite Boris Johnson and various other politicians gladly accepting all the dodgy Russian investment in the capital previously. We are now "enforcing a newly passed law that will allow the government to confiscate or freeze any Russian capital "of dubious origin". Whether or not this is the real cause or just the government using it as an excuse to take back some very valuable real estate it's hard to say.

I know enough to know I don't know anything. As always with these cloak and dagger political things, everyone has an opinion but very few actually have any facts. The government peddle a line and we have no way of knowing whether it's fact or fiction until years later. And yet the media whip people into a frenzy, anti Russia, anti Corbyn. People argue and fight and this division distracts us from other things they might not want there to be headlines about.

Don't get me wrong, if anything, I lean heavily towards it being likely Russia on what little I understand, because Putin wouldn't think twice about having someone assassinated in London and leaving his business card on the body... but I just find it funny that people who truly know nothing except what Maybot has said are quick to call anyone who doesn't fall in line an idiot (not referring to anyone on here, just the general attitudes of the public).
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#11 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 22:12

View Posttomtom, on 28 March 2018 - 15:06, said:

Most British politicians tend to agree it's Russia behind it. Obviously Trump initially had doubts hence sacking his secretary of state Rex Tillerson after he sided with Theresa May... only for Trump to do a 180 and back May after massive pressure from the British government. Many viewed his initial reluctance as further evidence (after the whole Russian election fraud stuff) that Trump was in the Kremlin's pocket. The government have also pressured various other governments in the UN to come forward and condemn Russia and kick out their diplomats.

Conspiracy theories aside, facts are the only independent people who are researching the nerve agent (the OPCW) are up to two weeks away from being able to reveal their findings, so considering they're the world experts it is slightly odd the British government claimed to know within a day.

I don't think Corbyn did anything wrong. The government refused to share their evidence of it being Russia with Corbyn, hence him being reticent initially to blame them. He has since obviously seen enough/buckled under huge media pressure to state there's a case to answer for. We all know politicians often have agendas, so for him to present a nuanced case of "I've not seen evidence, it could be Russia and if it is we need to act, but let's not rush ahead of ourselves and start a war before we have all the facts" was refreshing... predictably the media disgracefully tried to turn him into a traitor for trying not to start a war before he knew the facts.

Amongst the people who are presenting an argument that it might not actually be Russia is former British diplomat Craig Murray, who has recently said that the politicians who are saying it's Russia are the same ones who swore there were WMDs in Iraq. He has some interesting arguments.

http://www.craigmurr...iraqi-wmd-scam/

He also recently quoted a Cornell University Chemistry professor who said Novichoks could be made by anyone and to instantly say it's Russia was b******s.

Conspiracy theorists believe it's all an excuse to make a land grab on the Russian oligarchs in London, despite Boris Johnson and various other politicians gladly accepting all the dodgy Russian investment in the capital previously. We are now "enforcing a newly passed law that will allow the government to confiscate or freeze any Russian capital "of dubious origin". Whether or not this is the real cause or just the government using it as an excuse to take back some very valuable real estate it's hard to say.

I know enough to know I don't know anything. As always with these cloak and dagger political things, everyone has an opinion but very few actually have any facts. The government peddle a line and we have no way of knowing whether it's fact or fiction until years later. And yet the media whip people into a frenzy, anti Russia, anti Corbyn. People argue and fight and this division distracts us from other things they might not want there to be headlines about.

Don't get me wrong, if anything, I lean heavily towards it being likely Russia on what little I understand, because Putin wouldn't think twice about having someone assassinated in London and leaving his business card on the body... but I just find it funny that people who truly know nothing except what Maybot has said are quick to call anyone who doesn't fall in line an idiot (not referring to anyone on here, just the general attitudes of the public).


The counter complaint is that political debate often becomes inconclusive and everything becomes bogged down for the very reasons you state above. Someone will always have a contradicting stance and will therefore always challenge. They never agree on much. We, as the common people, must make a decision with what information we are not only given, but allowed. Not easy, but the difference for me is that some do it more robustly than others, yet all will get some right and some wrong.

All to often politics spends far to much time arguing the moral high ground, when the truth is most likely neither side deserves it. The Labour party claim to be of higher morals, laughable. The conservatives deny their lack of morals in the first place, also laughable.

The situation over the use of chemicals was allowed to be unresolved before, I don't see how any of that made any difference as we are back facing the same situation. Only this time Macron is far more verbal which at least proves some of the remainers propaganda is vastly exaggerated. We simply won't cut all ties with Europe and be set adrift. Even if we only voted out because we were lied to :)
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Posted 18 April 2018 - 23:28

true - I just lean towards not having a robust opinion when I don't know what I'm talking about... I'll stick to lecturing people to what I know I'm an authority on, like Spurs :getyacoat:
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#13 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 23:52

I find I'm more robust when I'm talking b******s :lmao:
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