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Brighton away

#41 User is offline   SteveB 

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 07:07

Good result and a few conclusions to be drawn I think

1) We miss Lloris and the way he commands the area. Vorm really is not a suitable backup and the jury is out on Gazzinaga

2) Rose offers far more than Davies

3) Playing the ball out from the back everytime is not a good idea

4) Harry Kane is still struggling for form and fitness. He seems to be playing much deeper at the moment

5) Lamela really cound turn into the player we hoped we were going to get when we signed him for 30M back in 2013
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#42 User is offline   griff 

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 10:06

View PostSteveB, on 23 September 2018 - 07:07, said:

Good result and a few conclusions to be drawn I think

1) We miss Lloris and the way he commands the area. Vorm really is not a suitable backup and the jury is out on Gazzinaga

2) Rose offers far more than Davies

3) Playing the ball out from the back everytime is not a good idea

4) Harry Kane is still struggling for form and fitness. He seems to be playing much deeper at the moment

5) Lamela really cound turn into the player we hoped we were going to get when we signed him for 30M back in 2013


We
Two things come to mind.

Do we now try and keep Rose. After all, if he continues to regain his form he is still arguably the best left back in the Premiership and home grown
Secondly,is Lamela better when he comes off the bench as opposed to when hes starting a game?
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#43 User is offline   SteveB 

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 10:13

The answers from my perspective Griff are - yes we need to keep Rose providing Poch is happy with his attitude - he offers so much more than Davies, in every department.

Regarding Lamela - thats a good point. Until he is 100% fit and hopefully less injury prone he has to start on the bench. I have seen him come on a couple of times so far this season, yesterday and against Fulham, and he was a game changer
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#44 User is offline   PH1882 

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 11:25

Three points are three points.

Onwards and upwards, something to build on now.
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#45 User is online   Silver 

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 11:47

View PostJRB, on 22 September 2018 - 17:58, said:

We are struggling! Chances are Brighton will score from a corner.

I'm just fed up with our insistance with playing out from the back. We're getting caught now they are pressing and it could cost us. Can't Poch see that?


Thanks to playing from the back we scored the 2nd goal. If we do it the right way it gives a lot of profits
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#46 User is online   Silver 

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 12:08

Apart from the 15 minutes spell in the 2nd half when they pushed us to the limit and that bloody naive stoppage time goal we were the much better side and controlled the game which is worth recignition as this was only the 3rd homeloss for Broghton in this calendar year that and they have taken respectable scalps during that time (ManU most recently). Not an easy place to go to by any means.

Rose played very well but Brighton's goal was his and Kane's fault. We were too open and lost concentration for that goal as players thougth the game was already won. And Knockaert had one atempt after the equaliser, had he hit that better they would equalise in the last minute of the game. We need to stay concentrated till the very end, in this league no one is going to stop trying until the final whistle and it was just naive to go with so many players forward when we traied to score 3rd goal toward the end of the game. We were too open.

The more the game progressed the more Kane looked like gatting to his best. He's found himself a few times in good shooting positions, we were yet to see this kind of performance from him this season.

Now that we have 3 winable games and all City, Chelsea and Liverpool have hard games we can get closer to the top of the table in the next 3 gameweeks, just stay concentrated and we can be no more than 2-3 points of the top of the table after that spell.
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#47 User is offline   JRB 

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 12:24

View PostSilver, on 23 September 2018 - 11:47, said:

Thanks to playing from the back we scored the 2nd goal. If we do it the right way it gives a lot of profits


And if you do it the wrong way or at the wrong time, it can give you a problem!

There are times to play out from the back, and there are times when you shouldn't. At times yesterday, when Brighton started to press us in the second half, we should have modified the way we were playing. Getting caught when playing short passes backwards and forwards to your goalkeeper deep in your own half can get you into trouble. In the first half it was no problem because they weren't pressing.No Spurs supporter wants to see us constantly hoofing the ball forward and potentially loosing procession, all I'm saying is that sometimes, based om what the opposition are doing, you may have to modify they way you are playing.
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#48 User is offline   dieselspurs 

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 22:06

I think Lamela should be in the starting 11, he has creativity we crave and is tenacious.
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#49 User is offline   tomtom 

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 22:29

View Postdieselspurs, on 23 September 2018 - 22:06, said:

I think Lamela should be in the starting 11, he has creativity we crave and is tenacious.


He's probably been our most consistent performer so far this season, but in a way he may not be as effective if he starts games. Been a superb impact sub, 2 goals and an assist from the bench in 3 games.
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#50 User is online   Silver 

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Posted 23 September 2018 - 22:37

View PostJRB, on 23 September 2018 - 12:24, said:

And if you do it the wrong way or at the wrong time, it can give you a problem!

There are times to play out from the back, and there are times when you shouldn't. At times yesterday, when Brighton started to press us in the second half, we should have modified the way we were playing. Getting caught when playing short passes backwards and forwards to your goalkeeper deep in your own half can get you into trouble. In the first half it was no problem because they weren't pressing.No Spurs supporter wants to see us constantly hoofing the ball forward and potentially loosing procession, all I'm saying is that sometimes, based om what the opposition are doing, you may have to modify they way you are playing.


When rivals don't press you playing from the back gives less profit then when you play through their high pressing. When they try to take the ball of our team on our half of the pitch and we quickly move the ball to their half then they are open because half or more of their team are still on our half and we have planty of space to attack. This was the case when we scored 2nd goal. If we weren't playing from the back when they pressed we wouldn't score the 2nd goal the way we did it. It's taking the risks and being brave about which Poch is saying so often. Playing from the back gives you a lot of profit when you do it well and since this squad is training this for years they are able to play from the back well more often than not.

But of course - thi is risky and when you do it wrong, you can concede a goal very easily.
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#51 User is offline   tomtom 

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Posted 24 September 2018 - 00:26

We've been very wasteful in possession in the 3 games before this, our passing was better in this game. Makes a huge difference.
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#52 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 24 September 2018 - 12:40

View PostSilver, on 23 September 2018 - 22:37, said:

When rivals don't press you playing from the back gives less profit then when you play through their high pressing. When they try to take the ball of our team on our half of the pitch and we quickly move the ball to their half then they are open because half or more of their team are still on our half and we have planty of space to attack. This was the case when we scored 2nd goal. If we weren't playing from the back when they pressed we wouldn't score the 2nd goal the way we did it. It's taking the risks and being brave about which Poch is saying so often. Playing from the back gives you a lot of profit when you do it well and since this squad is training this for years they are able to play from the back well more often than not.

But of course - thi is risky and when you do it wrong, you can concede a goal very easily.


I agree with this, passing out from the back is my preferred style of play, I don't want long ball to become a habit like it was when Dawson to Crouch percentage balls were our go to idea when nothing else was working. A pinpoint long ball from Toby needs movement up top, usually it's Alli on the end of them. Many managers force their players to pass their way out of trouble and will train this way. When a team sits back and parks the bus we complain, when a team comes out and presses we should not be looking for the ball over the top as plan A. It's more entertaining to pass out around them, and although mistakes can be costly, it's a philosophy to persevere with, which in turn allows the occasional Toby diagonal. It's 2nd rate to keep hoofing it in order to clear your lines these days.

I've slagged Mourinho off for years because he loves a fat lump up top and his flair players on the bench.

This post has been edited by Yidio Yidio: 24 September 2018 - 12:43

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#53 User is offline   Spurs scout 

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Posted 24 September 2018 - 14:47

View PostSilver, on 23 September 2018 - 22:37, said:

When rivals don't press you playing from the back gives less profit then when you play through their high pressing. When they try to take the ball of our team on our half of the pitch and we quickly move the ball to their half then they are open because half or more of their team are still on our half and we have planty of space to attack. This was the case when we scored 2nd goal. If we weren't playing from the back when they pressed we wouldn't score the 2nd goal the way we did it. It's taking the risks and being brave about which Poch is saying so often. Playing from the back gives you a lot of profit when you do it well and since this squad is training this for years they are able to play from the back well more often than not.

But of course - thi is risky and when you do it wrong, you can concede a goal very easily.

I agree and we have the players to play that way, Media are only noticing our passing from the back now because they are off the pace.

I don't think Dier in this form warrants a spot in the team, he is not tackling and when he does he loses the battle, his passing is also off, A few years ago he was a beast that earned him a England cap and was one of our most important players now he is a slow laboured player.
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#54 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 24 September 2018 - 14:53

View PostSpurs scout, on 24 September 2018 - 14:47, said:

I agree and we have the players to play that way, Media are only noticing our passing from the back now because they are off the pace.

I don't think Dier in this form warrants a spot in the team, he is not tackling, he is giving the ball away and is making Dembele over work. I thought he would be useful for setpieces but now he is obviously not.



Poch seems to love Dier, I wonder what his influence is in the dressing room. I also wonder if he's suffering from having to sit and watch Henderson at the World Cup.


I think Poch ought to get into Eric a little, wake him up. We know he can be decent, in the same way we know Rose can.
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#55 User is offline   tomtom 

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Posted 24 September 2018 - 17:55

Feel like Dier has bulked up too much in the last 12-18 months and has lost some mobility and sharpness. Not to mention his concentration and passing have dropped.

I agree he doesn't warrant a place, but it's clear Wanyama's not ready as Poch isn't even bringing him on for 20 mins here and there. It's a bit odd, he's only played 7 mins so far this season.

If he doesn't start in the Carabao then I'd imagine there's more to his fitness than the club have let on so far. Kenya have selected him as captain for their 2 games in October, but don't know if he's going to be released to play them yet.
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#56 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 24 September 2018 - 18:55

View Posttomtom, on 24 September 2018 - 17:55, said:

Feel like Dier has bulked up too much in the last 12-18 months and has lost some mobility and sharpness. Not to mention his concentration and passing have dropped.

I agree he doesn't warrant a place, but it's clear Wanyama's not ready as Poch isn't even bringing him on for 20 mins here and there. It's a bit odd, he's only played 7 mins so far this season.

If he doesn't start in the Carabao then I'd imagine there's more to his fitness than the club have let on so far. Kenya have selected him as captain for their 2 games in October, but don't know if he's going to be released to play them yet.



It's become very odd, an absolute rock in his first season and my player of the season pretty much. Was integral in our unbeaten farewell to the Lane then.....nothing.
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#57 User is offline   Spurs scout 

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Posted 24 September 2018 - 21:34

View PostYidio Yidio, on 24 September 2018 - 14:53, said:

Poch seems to love Dier, I wonder what his influence is in the dressing room. I also wonder if he's suffering from having to sit and watch Henderson at the World Cup.


I think Poch ought to get into Eric a little, wake him up. We know he can be decent, in the same way we know Rose can.

I agree
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#58 User is offline   Spurs scout 

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Posted 24 September 2018 - 21:39

View Posttomtom, on 24 September 2018 - 17:55, said:

Feel like Dier has bulked up too much in the last 12-18 months and has lost some mobility and sharpness. Not to mention his concentration and passing have dropped.

I agree he doesn't warrant a place, but it's clear Wanyama's not ready as Poch isn't even bringing him on for 20 mins here and there. It's a bit odd, he's only played 7 mins so far this season.

If he doesn't start in the Carabao then I'd imagine there's more to his fitness than the club have let on so far. Kenya have selected him as captain for their 2 games in October, but don't know if he's going to be released to play them yet.

I agree
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