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Second referendum.

#1 User is offline   Broadway Beagle 

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 17:14

Remainers are up for this because of the elderly dying post 2016.

All of a sudden your parents and grandparents views are not relevant.

My message is lets trade with the world .

Thats freedom.

Lets be free of threats and surreptitious rules and regulations from a foreign power that our only wish is to trade with.

Barnier has been employed to outwit and retain uk funds feeding into eu interests.

This has grown into bypassing our law courts and our very sovereignty.

Using the irish division as a weapon to retain british financial input into eu coffers.
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#2 User is offline   ChrisPienaar 

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 09:32

You cannot expect everyone who voted to remain to just switch over and start agreeing with your views because the vote was lost. I fully accept that we live in a democracy and the vote was done and by however small of a margin the leave vote won. But there are some things about the vote that make us (remoaners if you like) unhappy and in a way feel let down:


- The turnout at the EU vote in 2016 was 72.2%. That represents less than 3/4 of the country. I agree that it is the fault of those that didn't go to vote and shame on them but for such a huge decision like this you would hope a bigger percentage of the country would be involved. Knowing what is at stake now and being more informed of what is going to happen (on both sides) then a second vote is not an insane proposition, it could very well end up in a leave win.

- The vote was won by 51.9% to 48.1%. When you put that into the context of 72.2% of voters voting, it actually means that around 37.5% of the UK has voted to leave and 34.7% voted to remain. So you cannot talk about a majority win when it doesn't really represent a majority of the whole country. Now, out of those that didn't vote, I can't say whether there would be more or less remain/leave voters, so I can't say whether they would make a difference or not but I would like to know.

- The whole thing was a shambles from the start. David Cameron got things in motion and left as soon as the vote was done. How can one man have so much influence on starting something and then not be there to take responsibility? The leave campaign was covered in lies, maybe they didn't influence your vote in particular because you have other reasons to leave but you cannot say that nobody in this country was influenced by the messages being thrown about. Also, the remain campaign was virtually non-existent. It is not fair that we were not represented properly because some people were too arrogant to do anything about it. In Gibraltar for example we campaigned for remain and got a 97% or so remain vote.

- The UK won the leave campaign as a whole but the divisions in each country shows that it was too close for comfort. England and Wales were leave and Scotland and N Ireland were remain (and Gibraltar but were too small to make a difference)

- Why does Brexit mean Brexit keep being plastered all over the place. Theresa May was voted in to lead the whole thing forward yet shes been questioned, re-elected, voted down on her deal and people keep calling for her head. Does May not mean May? How has she got a second vote but the notion that there may be a second vote on one of the biggest decisions of our lifetimes is seen as criminal?


I am not looking for an argument or even answers to my points because I know the answers:

-People should have voted
-The majority won
-Brexit means Brexit


All I am saying is that I personally (and I think a lot of people agree) feel that we were let down in 2016 by people not voting as well as the people in charge not putting up much of a fight. Thats their fault obviously but I'm the one who will be living with the consequences.

Like I have said before, it would be crazy for Brexit to not go ahead now and unfair to those who voted to leave but you cannot take away the fact that almost half the country (that voted) doesn't want this to happen.

Add to all this that statement that because of deaths and people becoming of voting age that the result may be reversed then it shows you how close the whole thing was. If true, then the 'majority' that voted to leave doesn't exist anymore. Its very frustrating.
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#3 User is offline   Broadway Beagle 

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 11:47

Well to answer a couple of your points : in my opinion the people who thought it important to vote in that referendum did so ! those that didnt give a s*** either way didnt bother.
The cameron issues you are bringing up like him quitting is because he felt he couldnt run the country after brexit because he didnt believe in it....! and of course it would be called a shambles because the remain element lost.

BTW ! it was clegg who brought up the fact that many of the older people who voted leave back in 2016 were dead now and so the result could be different if the vote was rerun.

Trouble with this theory is that (IT) was then (2016) and relevant to that period of time.

To continue with the elderly who voted leave subject ! why do you think they voted leave ? maybe like me they saw the eu grow into something different than its common market counterparts of the 1970s.

Why are you happy with the ecj to over rule british court decisions.

We didnt join them for all that cr@p or redistribute our contributions to where they see fit.

The worse thing about all this now is that remainers have the balance of power in parliament and that isnt fair because they only represent one cause.

They dont represent and are not honouring the 2016 result.

They are taking away the no deal option which is a lever for us in dealing with the eu. (what a load of small minded pricks we have as mps)

Its a f***ing joke and democracy doesnt exist in this country anymore.

I hope may calls an election to assist in getting these pro remain mps out of parliament.

There is an online poll going on to see if you would want your pro remain mp deselected.

The results will be interesting.
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#4 User is offline   ChrisPienaar 

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 14:13

View PostBroadway Beagle, on 22 January 2019 - 11:47, said:

Well to answer a couple of your points : in my opinion the people who thought it important to vote in that referendum did so ! those that didnt give a s*** either way didnt bother.
The cameron issues you are bringing up like him quitting is because he felt he couldnt run the country after brexit because he didnt believe in it....! and of course it would be called a shambles because the remain element lost.

BTW ! it was clegg who brought up the fact that many of the older people who voted leave back in 2016 were dead now and so the result could be different if the vote was rerun.

Trouble with this theory is that (IT) was then (2016) and relevant to that period of time.

To continue with the elderly who voted leave subject ! why do you think they voted leave ? maybe like me they saw the eu grow into something different than its common market counterparts of the 1970s.

Why are you happy with the ecj to over rule british court decisions.

We didnt join them for all that cr@p or redistribute our contributions to where they see fit.

The worse thing about all this now is that remainers have the balance of power in parliament and that isnt fair because they only represent one cause.

They dont represent and are not honouring the 2016 result.

They are taking away the no deal option which is a lever for us in dealing with the eu. (what a load of small minded pricks we have as mps)

Its a f***ing joke and democracy doesnt exist in this country anymore.

I hope may calls an election to assist in getting these pro remain mps out of parliament.

There is an online poll going on to see if you would want your pro remain mp deselected.

The results will be interesting.


I think we just see things very differently and have to accept that we won't convince eachother. I think what is clear is that the result of 2016 was a shock to a lot of people and those on the remain side are still in disbelief about it. Whether you think we are stupid or whatever for that is your own opinion.

I agree that this whole thing should be led be 'leave' MP's rather than remain one because those who were remain do not believe what they're doing is right and want to keep a good relationship with the EU. That is why Theresa May has been a weird one since the beginning. Is it maybe because the leave MP's are bricking it and don't really know what to do either? If I was a remain MP then I would be calling for leave MP's to step forward and do something. As far as I see it, they won the vote and yet the remainers are picking up the pieces? Thats like losing a vote against fox hunting and then being expected to go on a hunt. :wtf:
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#5 User is offline   Broadway Beagle 

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 14:29

View PostChrisPienaar, on 22 January 2019 - 14:13, said:

I think we just see things very differently and have to accept that we won't convince eachother. I think what is clear is that the result of 2016 was a shock to a lot of people and those on the remain side are still in disbelief about it. Whether you think we are stupid or whatever for that is your own opinion.

I agree that this whole thing should be led be 'leave' MP's rather than remain one because those who were remain do not believe what they're doing is right and want to keep a good relationship with the EU. That is why Theresa May has been a weird one since the beginning. Is it maybe because the leave MP's are bricking it and don't really know what to do either? If I was a remain MP then I would be calling for leave MP's to step forward and do something. As far as I see it, they won the vote and yet the remainers are picking up the pieces? Thats like losing a vote against fox hunting and then being expected to go on a hunt. :wtf:



Honestly Chris ! its madness that at the end of the day all we want to do is trade with them but they have changed the proverbial goal posts in over turning our laws and court decisions.

Its been insidious over the years and older people maybe born in the 1940s and 50s have seen this.

You live in gibraltar and have your own problems but we in england have seen massive changes.

Let me take the time to tell you of my own experiences with foreigners in this country.

I shared a market stall with a friend who could speak several languages.

She had a diamond & gold ring for sale with a realistic value of £200.

A family of foreigners came up speaking in their mother tongue and she heard them say " offer £5 for that ring because you know how stupid the english are "
Thats what they think of us out there and its about time it changed.

I am all for farage and what a brave bloke because he must get tons of s*** because he is in the headlines most days.
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#6 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 14:31

If we had left with no deal straight away none of this would be going on.


And we would have been far more forward than we are now. Politicians have failed.


If my vote turns out to be pointless/ignored then surely my next vote isn't going to be cast. Explain to me why I should bother next time.
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#7 User is offline   Broadway Beagle 

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 14:42

View PostYidio Yidio, on 22 January 2019 - 14:31, said:

If we had left with no deal straight away none of this would be going on.


And we would have been far more forward than we are now. Politicians have failed.


If my vote turns out to be pointless/ignored then surely my next vote isn't going to be cast. Explain to me why I should bother next time.



My lovely wife and myself have decided we arent voting in any future referendum.

Our first vote has been negated by remain politicians of several parties who deserve their day of rejection in the next general election.

The result of the first referendum is their priority to attain as representatives of their constituents.

Their personal opinion that we didnt know what we were doing isnt of any interest to me.
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#8 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 14:46

View PostBroadway Beagle, on 22 January 2019 - 14:42, said:

My lovely wife and myself have decided we arent voting in any future referendum.

Our first vote has been negated by remain politicians of several parties who deserve their day of rejection in the next general election.

The result of the first referendum is their priority to attain as representatives of their constituents.

Their personal opinion that we didnt know what we were doing isnt of any interest to me.


I have always voted, my parents made sure I knew the importance of it.


My Grandad who fought in the 2nd world war stopped voting because he said all politicians were self serving.


I think I will also save myself the frustration of this nonsense in future.
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#9 User is offline   Broadway Beagle 

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 14:57

View PostYidio Yidio, on 22 January 2019 - 14:46, said:

I have always voted, my parents made sure I knew the importance of it.


My Grandad who fought in the 2nd world war stopped voting because he said all politicians were self serving.


I think I will also save myself the frustration of this nonsense in future.



Understand yidio.

It is frustrating.

At my age i am losing interest.

But my grand father would turn in his grave that what he fought for has been meekly given away......? power over us from a foreign power.
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#10 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 15:04

View PostBroadway Beagle, on 22 January 2019 - 14:57, said:

Understand yidio.

It is frustrating.

At my age i am losing interest.

But my grand father would turn in his grave that what he fought for has been meekly given away......? power over us from a foreign power.



Yep, but they will have proved that my concerns about not being able to get out were very valid. The rich run the country and the poor mans vote will become worthless and meaningless even as a majority.
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#11 User is offline   Broadway Beagle 

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 16:45

View PostYidio Yidio, on 22 January 2019 - 15:04, said:

Yep, but they will have proved that my concerns about not being able to get out were very valid. The rich run the country and the poor mans vote will become worthless and meaningless even as a majority.


A big yes i agree.
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