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Copa America VAR, Offsides, And Handballs

#1 User is offline   50 Cent 

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 08:49

Just watched Brazil have two goals disallowed purely because of VAR decisions. They were both correct, an offside and handball, but on the basis of play VAR is discouraging attacking play and ruining the flow of the game.

A few things I noticed

1. Offside should be a clear objective split second decision without the use of VAR, the same as goal-line technology.
2. Handballs should only be given via a VAR appeal from the opposing team. They get one appeal per game, taken away if incorrect. The handball rule should also be judged with the benefit of the doubt given to the handballer. In other words, it should not be an objective decision like offside should be. It should only be flagged on very rare occasions, for example, blocking a clear shot on goal, or using the hand to control the ball for a goal or an assist. It is still the hardest decision to legislate for in my opinion but in short still needs less VAR, less stoppage of time, and less controversy.
3. Argentina may be the Spurs of international football. Their results are very Spursy for a team that should have won things by now.
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#2 User is offline   Roger Redknapp 

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 21:27

Liverpool mate mentioned hes concerned that their Brazilians and African contingent making up their attack could get fatigued going into the season
'If we are artists of our own being, let us paint our own horizons' 23:26
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#3 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 22:18

View Post50 Cent, on 19 June 2019 - 08:49, said:

Just watched Brazil have two goals disallowed purely because of VAR decisions. They were both correct, an offside and handball, but on the basis of play VAR is discouraging attacking play and ruining the flow of the game.

A few things I noticed

1. Offside should be a clear objective split second decision without the use of VAR, the same as goal-line technology.
2. Handballs should only be given via a VAR appeal from the opposing team. They get one appeal per game, taken away if incorrect. The handball rule should also be judged with the benefit of the doubt given to the handballer. In other words, it should not be an objective decision like offside should be. It should only be flagged on very rare occasions, for example, blocking a clear shot on goal, or using the hand to control the ball for a goal or an assist. It is still the hardest decision to legislate for in my opinion but in short still needs less VAR, less stoppage of time, and less controversy.
3. Argentina may be the Spurs of international football. Their results are very Spursy for a team that should have won things by now.


Var is sanitizing far to much, the letter of the law is sometimes applied without common sense. It's being over used, same with the women's WC.

I wanted VAR, but have completely changed that view. It's going to be a nightmare with it.
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#4 User is offline   50 Cent 

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 17:49

View PostYidio Yidio, on 26 June 2019 - 22:18, said:

Var is sanitizing far to much, the letter of the law is sometimes applied without common sense. It's being over used, same with the women's WC.

I wanted VAR, but have completely changed that view. It's going to be a nightmare with it.


VAR itself is fine, but the implementation of it is not. Pochettino stated this many times and was ridiculed for it. If it is not an objective decision, and it is slowing down the game, there needs to be more limitations on it or the rules need to change to be more objective and use other technologies.

It should not be used with such a high percentage of error. Even if it gets 60% of decisions right as opposed to 50%, at least 10% of the game is being lost which is intangible.

Basically the main thing VAR highlights is how many rule changes the game needs in order to be objective. So, in other words, because VAR exists, the laws of the game need to change. This should not be the case. The laws of the game should be decided for the laws of the game, and VAR should be only used when it gets a 100% objective split second decision to assist the referee like goal-line technology.

Because it cannot do that, it should not be used.
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#5 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 18:39

That's exactly what I said, it isn't working because it's a machine with no common sense being operated by a human who cannot intervene by using common sense. Computer says no.
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#6 User is offline   madmaxpeake 

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Posted 10 July 2019 - 00:24

It's pretty crazy how they keep getting stuff wrong even after VAR.
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#7 User is offline   tomtom 

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Posted 15 July 2019 - 15:34

View Postmadmaxpeake, on 10 July 2019 - 00:24, said:

It's pretty crazy how they keep getting stuff wrong even after VAR.


This is what gets me sometimes.

I feel like a lot of refs don't actually know or possibly understand all the rules. I've still only heard people argue the Sissoko handball was accurate for reasons that don't apply eg "making himself bigger to block" (He wasn't. He was pointing then pulled his arm towards him to make himself smaller if anything) "his arm being over his shoulder " (it wasn't). Not saying it definitely wasn't a penalty but people justifying why it was are using reasons that don't apply, which shows there are problems that won't be solved by a computer/camera.
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#8 User is offline   50 Cent 

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 18:33

View Posttomtom, on 15 July 2019 - 15:34, said:

This is what gets me sometimes.

I feel like a lot of refs don't actually know or possibly understand all the rules. I've still only heard people argue the Sissoko handball was accurate for reasons that don't apply eg "making himself bigger to block" (He wasn't. He was pointing then pulled his arm towards him to make himself smaller if anything) "his arm being over his shoulder " (it wasn't). Not saying it definitely wasn't a penalty but people justifying why it was are using reasons that don't apply, which shows there are problems that won't be solved by a computer/camera.


That's a fair point. My main reason for not defending Sissoko is you shouldn't be raising the arm in the box in the first minute of a Champions League final full stop.

Yes, I take the point the referee didn't make the best decision, but when it is debatable and they do look to give them it is hard to not have a word with the player or improve on them imo.

Honestly, Pochettino has improved on Sissoko so if we improve one more defensive player, as it wasn't the only thing that cost us, then I feel we shouldn't be relying on referees making perfect decisions to draw a game of football.
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#9 User is offline   tomtom 

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Posted 21 July 2019 - 10:05

I wasn't necessarily bemoaning the decision, moreso pointing out that people don't actually seem to understand what the rules are so VAR isn't going to work properly if people don't know when the rules are supposed to apply
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