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Olympiakos vs Tottenham Hotspur UEFA Champion's League 2019/2020

#81 User is offline   Spurs scout 

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 19:09

View PostChrisPienaar, on 18 September 2019 - 18:59, said:

Problems -

1) Sanchez and Davies are not good enough as full backs, nowhere near good enough.
2) Poch struggles to make hard calls like taking Eriksen off today. He seems to be quite set in his ways and his adaptability is a worry for me.
3) we refuse to try using wingers when we are missing our best full backs meaning we struggle to break through and teams just defend the middle
4) why does Poch not see any of this and react?

I don't think the modern manager plays with wingers anymore, even Norwich don't play with wingers.
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#82 User is offline   50 Cent 

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 19:14

View PostSpurs scout, on 18 September 2019 - 18:54, said:

You can't always blame the tactics, our players were just p!ss poor. If Real madrid saw how shocking Erisen was today they would think no chance.


I agree the players were poor. Eriksen and Vertonghen in particular.

However, when you do change the back four and have no defensive midfield, and get the same result as Arsenal away, these are patterns way bigger than individual performance.

People are saying Winks played well but he did nothing. Yes he scrapped in midfield, but he wasn't outstanding defensively or offensively.

That is fine if we are 2-0 up. At 2-2 it is a different story.

Also, if we have players whose mentality is not to defend, then at some stage you have to either sack those players, add new ones, or play a different system.

Poch has been here six years and made a number of signings and departures so there are no excuses in terms of basic errors and going backwards.

He had worse or equal quality when he started.
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#83 User is offline   50 Cent 

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 19:18

View PostChrisPienaar, on 18 September 2019 - 18:59, said:

Problems -

1) Sanchez and Davies are not good enough as full backs, nowhere near good enough.
2) Poch struggles to make hard calls like taking Eriksen off today. He seems to be quite set in his ways and his adaptability is a worry for me.
3) we refuse to try using wingers when we are missing our best full backs meaning we struggle to break through and teams just defend the middle
4) why does Poch not see any of this and react?


To answer the last question, I believe Poch does not react in order to show who is boss. E.g. if Eriksen is not up for it, he will make him run twice is hard.

I feel this costs the team a lot.
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#84 User is offline   Parklaner 

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 19:26

Our issues has nothing to do with our CM IMO I think weíre very strong in that area overall ndombele,dier,winks,sissoko,wally also eriksen can play deeper as can dele & our system doesnít command a CDM our lack of shape & strong footing is a result of our system failing due to ??
Full backs full backs full backs

Liverpool are the perfect example of this they consistently field a midfield consisting of Henderson or James Milner yet are ripping it up at the moment why? Because they are simply there as numbers to run, close gaps & pressure the opposition without having the responsibility of HAVING to create chances playing through the middle of the park they simply play to the width & rely on the full backs to feed the front three,
Whereas with us they are having to do so much more threading the eye of a needle trying to find a killer ball meaning they drift or push further forward whilst also not having the out ball of using width simply because our full backs either donít supply positionally or donít have the quality to feed our front three
Until we nail down our full back positions we will continue to struggle & look unbalanced
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#85 User is offline   SpursDan 

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 19:39

Think Parky is spot on. Itís clear and obvious from our performances this season that the full back areas are significantly weaker right now, the weakest in years!
Fingers crossed Sess can come in and make LB his own and sort the problem out a little
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#86 User is offline   Spurs scout 

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 19:41

View Post50 Cent, on 18 September 2019 - 19:14, said:

I agree the players were poor. Eriksen and Vertonghen in particular.

However, when you do change the back four and have no defensive midfield, and get the same result as Arsenal away, these are patterns way bigger than individual performance.

People are saying Winks played well but he did nothing. Yes he scrapped in midfield, but he wasn't outstanding defensively or offensively.

That is fine if we are 2-0 up. At 2-2 it is a different story.

Also, if we have players whose mentality is not to defend, then at some stage you have to either sack those players, add new ones, or play a different system.

Poch has been here six years and made a number of signings and departures so there are no excuses in terms of basic errors and going backwards.

He had worse or equal quality when he started.

I just think we have players with poor mentality which is why we fail when it matters, does Poch now have to have a meeting to get them going lol.
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#87 User is offline   50 Cent 

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 19:41

I agree the full backs are a weakness, especially when we change two that worked ok, but they are the second biggest weakness imo and always have been since the deterioration of Dier/Wanyama and Dembele
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#88 User is online   stokesie 

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 19:42

Turned out to be a good point in the end. Lucky to get a draw. Thought we were poor. Normal service has resumed !
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#89 User is offline   ChrisPienaar 

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 19:42

View PostSpurs scout, on 18 September 2019 - 19:09, said:

I don't think the modern manager plays with wingers anymore, even Norwich don't play with wingers.


We need to do something to change the game when we are being blocked through the middle. We for some reason havenít invested in a top quality right full back and given Davies a new contract and sold trippier. Today we decided to leave rose and Aurier at home 🤷🏽‍♂️🤷🏽‍♂️🤷🏽‍ ♂️

We were crying out for full backs and I thought when we sold trips we would be bringing someone in. Iím hoping that sessegnon will rotate with rose when fit and we may see Davies as cover for central defense and LB when we are desperate.
I think we are all patiently waiting to see if Foyth is the answer to all our prayers at RB lol.
We must remember that we have sessegnon and Foyth to come back and I hope they can settle in quickly.
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#90 User is offline   Parklaner 

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 19:43

View PostParklaner, on 18 September 2019 - 19:26, said:

Our issues has nothing to do with our CM IMO I think weíre very strong in that area overall ndombele,dier,winks,sissoko,wally also eriksen can play deeper as can dele & our system doesnít command a CDM our lack of shape & strong footing is a result of our system failing due to ??
Full backs full backs full backs

Liverpool are the perfect example of this they consistently field a midfield consisting of Henderson or James Milner yet are ripping it up at the moment why? Because they are simply there as numbers to run, close gaps & pressure the opposition without having the responsibility of HAVING to create chances playing through the middle of the park they simply play to the width & rely on the full backs to feed the front three,
Whereas with us they are having to do so much more threading the eye of a needle trying to find a killer ball meaning they drift or push further forward whilst also not having the out ball of using width simply because our full backs either donít supply positionally or donít have the quality to feed our front three
Until we nail down our full back positions we will continue to struggle & look unbalanced

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#91 User is offline   Spurs scout 

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 20:37

View PostChrisPienaar, on 18 September 2019 - 19:42, said:

We need to do something to change the game when we are being blocked through the middle. We for some reason havenít invested in a top quality right full back and given Davies a new contract and sold trippier. Today we decided to leave rose and Aurier at home 🤷🏽‍♂️🤷🏽‍♂️🤷🏽‍ ♂️

We were crying out for full backs and I thought when we sold trips we would be bringing someone in. Iím hoping that sessegnon will rotate with rose when fit and we may see Davies as cover for central defense and LB when we are desperate.
I think we are all patiently waiting to see if Foyth is the answer to all our prayers at RB lol.
We must remember that we have sessegnon and Foyth to come back and I hope they can settle in quickly.

Only Rose and Aurier suit our system, we are fluid when our fullbacks are flying down the wings when we played a diamond formation against palace. The problem with Poch is he always thinks too far ahead because of our heavy schedule.
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#92 User is offline   tomtom 

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 20:44

In fairness an away draw is not awful, especially if we get the 3 points away at Leicester on Saturday with Serge and Danny fresh and full of running.

Agree full backs were the main problem today. They played too narrow (especially Sanchez) and congested the middle.

Eriksen was pretty awful but he thrives on space and movement around him which was hampered by our shape.
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#93 User is offline   SpursDan 

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 20:54

Long term we need Sess to shine at LB and then we have to sign a new RB in January .....IMO Foyth, KWP, Aurier - none are good enough
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#94 User is offline   Lonspurs 

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 21:46

View Posttomtom, on 18 September 2019 - 20:44, said:

In fairness an away draw is not awful, especially if we get the 3 points away at Leicester on Saturday with Serge and Danny fresh and full of running.

Agree full backs were the main problem today. They played too narrow (especially Sanchez) and congested the middle.

Eriksen was pretty awful but he thrives on space and movement around him which was hampered by our shape.


I've been tending to think along these lines too. Throwing away a 2-0 lead is a bit frustrating but as you say a draw is not awful. I'm sure we can beat them at home with a bit to spare. Leicester is a tough game but if we get three points the Olympiakos match will be forgotten.
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#95 User is offline   tomtom 

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Posted 18 September 2019 - 23:43

Yeah you're right, I'm often a bigger picture thinker rather than obsessing over 1 result of performance, and I have been about tonight, but you're spot on that dropping a 2 goal lead again is irritating. Our attacking play wasn't good enough but as I've said before - we shouldn't need to score 3+ goals to win a game. We've got to get the defence sorted!
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#96 User is offline   SteveB 

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 06:14

View Posttomtom, on 18 September 2019 - 23:43, said:

Yeah you're right, I'm often a bigger picture thinker rather than obsessing over 1 result of performance, and I have been about tonight, but you're spot on that dropping a 2 goal lead again is irritating. Our attacking play wasn't good enough but as I've said before - we shouldn't need to score 3+ goals to win a game. We've got to get the defence sorted!


Three or four years ago we had the best back line in the country with Walker, Jan, Toby & Rose. Walker has gone on to pastures new, Rose & Toby are being hawked for sale and Jan has lost a yard or so of pace. We have major problems in defense -m ones that cannot be solved ny playing Sanchez as a makeshift right back. I really cannot understand Pochetinno's thinking
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#97 User is offline   Hurrikane 

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 08:01

Problem is we've had one good game against Palace before this cant remember the last time we were consistently good. We have been poor for some time now, not won an away champions league game since 2017 either.
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#98 User is offline   willyid82 

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 08:56

Didnít see the game so my first reaction was itís not a bad result.
Blowing a two goal lead again is not a major concern but conceding right before half time again is.

I see a lot of post mention about the full backs , Iíve felt for a long while that is a problem .
Sess is going to make a big difference imo and maybe poch is in need to speed up his progress.

Also is that right Sanchez played right back again?
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#99 User is offline   griff 

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Posted 19 September 2019 - 09:24

View Posttomtom, on 18 September 2019 - 20:44, said:

In fairness an away draw is not awful, especially if we get the 3 points away at Leicester on Saturday with Serge and Danny fresh and full of running.

Agree full backs were the main problem today. They played too narrow (especially Sanchez) and congested the middle.

Eriksen was pretty awful but he thrives on space and movement around him which was hampered by our shape.



Let’s forget about modern formations and go 4-3-3 and use wide forward for width not full backs.

Lloris
Aurier...Toby...Jan....Rose
Lo Celso...Winks....Ndombele
Moura...Kane....Son
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