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Under JM Good or bad so far? Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   aramak 

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Posted 30 December 2019 - 15:35

Like most on here I've been disappointed in the teams defending since Mourinho came in as I thought he would tighten things up and get us looking a unit and team again but I understand it's hard to pick up a team mid season that's low in confidence and disjointed. He's had the new manager bounce and a good run of matches but we're still hard to watch and look far from cohesive.

I saw this article and realised despite all that he was getting results and form wise we're not doing badly. Tell me what you guys think??

https://www.instagra...source=ig_embed
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#2 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 30 December 2019 - 15:41

View Postaramak, on 30 December 2019 - 15:35, said:

Like most on here I've been disappointed in the teams defending since Mourinho came in as I thought he would tighten things up and get us looking a unit and team again but I understand it's hard to pick up a team mid season that's low in confidence and disjointed. He's had the new manager bounce and a good run of matches but we're still hard to watch and look far from cohesive.

I saw this article and realised despite all that he was getting results and form wise we're not doing badly. Tell me what you guys think??

https://www.instagra...source=ig_embed


I'll go first then, as it's my favourite topic.

Not much has changed, we defend like idiots and often end up chasing a game. He's even managed to get one of those odd results in where we wipe the floor with our opponents (Burnley).

Beyond new manager bounce and players responding when they ought to have already been doing so, I don't see much different in performances.

He is obviously trying and looking for something that works though, but he definitely hasn't found it.
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#3 User is offline   ChrisPienaar 

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Posted 30 December 2019 - 17:10

Donít know if people expected Mourinho to come in and wave a magic wand and suddenly we were gna be able to defend. We conceded 7 against Bayern, 3 against Brighton and other bad defensive performances before Mourinho.
I donít think that loads has changed since he came but how could it in what? 4 weeks?
The Norwich game was disappointing but it came 2 days after a hard fought win against Brighton and was lost due to individual mistakes giving away stupid goals.
He certainly has had an impact on some of our players. Dele Alli is looking again like the player that was linked with a big money move to Madrid rather than the league two player that started the season.
I have no doubt that Mourinho will do well for us whilst heís here but there will be some rocky performances for sure. And the squad is stale and needs refreshing so hoping we can offload a few and bring some in.
He only lasts about 3 years at any club so I wonít judge him just yet.
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#4 User is offline   ArmchairSpurs 

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Posted 30 December 2019 - 17:25

The Good: got Dele firing again; will make changes during the game far earlier than Poch; steadied the ship and had us climb up the table
The bad: defence still a mess which I thought heíd quickly improve.

Early days...
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#5 User is offline   stokesie 

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Posted 30 December 2019 - 18:16

Our players are s***e. Had enough of the lot of them to be honest
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#6 User is offline   tomtom 

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Posted 30 December 2019 - 19:57

He's had a favourable run of fixtures and we've done OK in the games we'd expect to win and not so great in the tough games.

I expect us to make top 4 under him though.
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#7 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 30 December 2019 - 20:56

View Posttomtom, on 30 December 2019 - 19:57, said:

He's had a favourable run of fixtures and we've done OK in the games we'd expect to win and not so great in the tough games.

I expect us to make top 4 under him though.


That's the bench mark on him, that's his job. That's a fair level of expectation.

So is he allowed to fail if he gets no money to spend in Jan ? Because that excuse is already dusted off and primed in readiness.
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#8 User is offline   SpursDan 

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Posted 30 December 2019 - 21:00

Heís done OK. We all need to get behind him and hopefully the board do as well and then he can put his own stamp on the team, and along with that hopefully a winning mentality.
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#9 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 30 December 2019 - 21:23

View PostSpursDan, on 30 December 2019 - 21:00, said:

Heís done OK. We all need to get behind him and hopefully the board do as well and then he can put his own stamp on the team, and along with that hopefully a winning mentality.


He needs money to spend, it says that on his CV.
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#10 User is offline   aramak 

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Posted 30 December 2019 - 22:31

View PostYidio Yidio, on 30 December 2019 - 21:23, said:

He needs money to spend, it says that on his CV.


It would impress me more if he made top 4 without spending money from the position he took over but I doubt very much he'll not add a player or two this window with 3 or 4 leaving if that was the case.
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#11 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 30 December 2019 - 23:40

View Postaramak, on 30 December 2019 - 22:31, said:

It would impress me more if he made top 4 without spending money from the position he took over but I doubt very much he'll not add a player or two this window with 3 or 4 leaving if that was the case.


It would me, and it's possible that's exactly the job he took. But that then worries me even more that our defending and new signings show or shows no improvement from the day he took over.

It also worries me that Maureen is ok with that, unless he can see he has a free ticket to miss top 4 this season and would then be regarded as a success if, with a little investment in the summer he manages it.

I believe the squad is good enough to get top 4 as it stands, I still believe it's capable of better, therefore, I think it's reasonable to judge Maureen on that. If he hits it, then his appointment is justified. If he misses, then it's questionable at best.

Many seem to be cutting him a lot of slack on this, almost a free shot at it and an ok, never mind attitude, The problem I have is I'd rather have a young and energetic manager in place to work with enthusiasm with our academy talent, I'd give that kind of manager that same slack. But, Mourinho gets to many plaudits as a master of the game, the one guy who can, the guy who's done it all. So if he doesn't and ends up needing the same amount of time, backed up with the same claims that he wasn't backed with the finances, then all those claims are wrong and he isn't the guy who can do it all. He's the guy who failed at United and the manager who we all said bought every piece of silverware he won in the EPL. He's failed.

I do realise that some would write off this season if they were guaranteed a trophy next year. They think he'll be backed with money to do that, yet history has proven he'll more likely get that money if he wins it through CL qualification and progression. It's still imperative to achieve this for the club to progress, to keep our star players and to have bigger cash piles to help rebuild the team. It's harder and more likely he'll be sacked if he misses it next season.

It's important, it's his level, he should be aware of that. We should be more anxious about him failing. We seem to have this sit back and relax, because if he misses it, he'll definitely hit it next year. The clocks ticking, it's achievable, and he should back it up with doing it to shut people like me up.

I am totally honest when I say I see no improvement from the team that Poch was in charge of on the opening day of the season when it toiled for 70 mins against Villa and ran out 3-1 winners, and wiped the floor in 30 mins against Palace. They're the same level, patchy with glimpses of nice football turning s***e with severe defensive frailties.
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#12 User is offline   aramak 

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 00:24

View PostYidio Yidio, on 30 December 2019 - 23:40, said:

It would me, and it's possible that's exactly the job he took. But that then worries me even more that our defending and new signings show or shows no improvement from the day he took over.

It also worries me that Maureen is ok with that, unless he can see he has a free ticket to miss top 4 this season and would then be regarded as a success if, with a little investment in the summer he manages it.

I believe the squad is good enough to get top 4 as it stands, I still believe it's capable of better, therefore, I think it's reasonable to judge Maureen on that. If he hits it, then his appointment is justified. If he misses, then it's questionable at best.

Many seem to be cutting him a lot of slack on this, almost a free shot at it and an ok, never mind attitude, The problem I have is I'd rather have a young and energetic manager in place to work with enthusiasm with our academy talent, I'd give that kind of manager that same slack. But, Mourinho gets to many plaudits as a master of the game, the one guy who can, the guy who's done it all. So if he doesn't and ends up needing the same amount of time, backed up with the same claims that he wasn't backed with the finances, then all those claims are wrong and he isn't the guy who can do it all. He's the guy who failed at United and the manager who we all said bought every piece of silverware he won in the EPL. He's failed.

I do realise that some would write off this season if they were guaranteed a trophy next year. They think he'll be backed with money to do that, yet history has proven he'll more likely get that money if he wins it through CL qualification and progression. It's still imperative to achieve this for the club to progress, to keep our star players and to have bigger cash piles to help rebuild the team. It's harder and more likely he'll be sacked if he misses it next season.

It's important, it's his level, he should be aware of that. We should be more anxious about him failing. We seem to have this sit back and relax, because if he misses it, he'll definitely hit it next year. The clocks ticking, it's achievable, and he should back it up with doing it to shut people like me up.

I am totally honest when I say I see no improvement from the team that Poch was in charge of on the opening day of the season when it toiled for 70 mins against Villa and ran out 3-1 winners, and wiped the floor in 30 mins against Palace. They're the same level, patchy with glimpses of nice football turning s***e with severe defensive frailties.



I actually agree with everything you've said here. He should get top 4 with this squad but I do believe he has a different remit to the one at ManU. There it was to win the premiership and wrestle power from City.

Here is to build to that level while staying in the top 4 and picking up trophies where possible. He said before he got the job he wouldn't take a job unless he knew what the objectives of the club was and the resources behind those objectives.

He has been insistent that there are no secrets between him and Levy and he's happy with everything he's been told and we won't be one of the clubs chasing the biggest players, we operate differently.
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#13 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 01:18

View Postaramak, on 31 December 2019 - 00:24, said:

I actually agree with everything you've said here. He should get top 4 with this squad but I do believe he has a different remit to the one at ManU. There it was to win the premiership and wrestle power from City.

Here is to build to that level while staying in the top 4 and picking up trophies where possible. He said before he got the job he wouldn't take a job unless he knew what the objectives of the club was and the resources behind those objectives.

He has been insistent that there are no secrets between him and Levy and he's happy with everything he's been told and we won't be one of the clubs chasing the biggest players, we operate differently.


And I agree with the points about United, and that expectation is rightly higher there than with us. I'll only put reasonable levels of expectation to the debate, it's exactly as you say, top 4 and the rest is icing on the cake should it happen.

This is basically why I'm not giving him an easy ride. He's high profile, there are no nice tries, or unlucky sons. He's got a job to do with this squad, he's had two bites at the cherry to quieten my kind of noise down, Chelsea and Norwich, when at the sharp end of a meaningful statement.

I can even excuse a signing in Jan to the tune of Matic, not my choice, but something similar that proves to be a wise signing is all fair and just.

But, I still insist that top 4 is the benchmark, it justifies everything and I'll include Toby's contract in that. I could be all easy going and see the attempts being made , but this is Maurinho, it's all about the prize on offer, and that prize is calculated by what he has now, and what he spends in the future. If he starts unearthing cheap talent, he'll be awarded the right plaudits, and regardless of that silly list he once produced, it'll be something he'll have done as a Spurs manager that he hasn't done much of elsewhere. Which is the kind of thing I'd defend him over.
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#14 User is offline   aramak 

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 09:49

View PostYidio Yidio, on 31 December 2019 - 01:18, said:

And I agree with the points about United, and that expectation is rightly higher there than with us. I'll only put reasonable levels of expectation to the debate, it's exactly as you say, top 4 and the rest is icing on the cake should it happen.

This is basically why I'm not giving him an easy ride. He's high profile, there are no nice tries, or unlucky sons. He's got a job to do with this squad, he's had two bites at the cherry to quieten my kind of noise down, Chelsea and Norwich, when at the sharp end of a meaningful statement.

I can even excuse a signing in Jan to the tune of Matic, not my choice, but something similar that proves to be a wise signing is all fair and just.

But, I still insist that top 4 is the benchmark, it justifies everything and I'll include Toby's contract in that. I could be all easy going and see the attempts being made , but this is Maurinho, it's all about the prize on offer, and that prize is calculated by what he has now, and what he spends in the future. If he starts unearthing cheap talent, he'll be awarded the right plaudits, and regardless of that silly list he once produced, it'll be something he'll have done as a Spurs manager that he hasn't done much of elsewhere. Which is the kind of thing I'd defend him over.


Agree again the difference being you want to judge him from the off while I think my first judgment call would be at the end of the season if we don't make top 4 and from then onwards.
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#15 User is offline   willyid82 

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 11:33

Il be as honest as I can , I didnít want mourinho , still donít but so far results have improved but performances have been very Jekyll and Hyde .

He has been out done tactically which concerns me greatly because thatís his bread and butter , thatís the good he brings in amongst the s*** he leaves behind.

But he has done some things which I canít lie have been good .
He has put Moura , son , alli and Kane in the same team which I believe poch should have done before the end of his era , he may still be with us if he did .
He has made early changes but the best thing imo he done was against Norwich when he hooked verts off and kept sess at left back.

Itís been a mixed bag and my judgement will begin next season .
This will end in tears I just hope we win a trophy to appease the fans that want this more than anything.


I still hold my stance on when mourinho does go levy f***s off with him.
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#16 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 11:51

View Postwillyid82, on 31 December 2019 - 11:33, said:

Il be as honest as I can , I didn’t want mourinho , still don’t but so far results have improved but performances have been very Jekyll and Hyde .

He has been out done tactically which concerns me greatly because that’s his bread and butter , that’s the good he brings in amongst the s*** he leaves behind.

But he has done some things which I can’t lie have been good .
He has put Moura , son , alli and Kane in the same team which I believe poch should have done before the end of his era , he may still be with us if he did .
He has made early changes but the best thing imo he done was against Norwich when he hooked verts off and kept sess at left back.

It’s been a mixed bag and my judgement will begin next season .
This will end in tears I just hope we win a trophy to appease the fans that want this more than anything.


I still hold my stance on when mourinho does go levy f***s off with him.


It's difficult to see where Levy goes after Mourinho if he fails. I wonder if that will sink in with Jose and he'll turn the screw for some cash in the summer.

I wonder if that's the very point when ENIC move aside (don't think they'll sell up entirely though).
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#17 User is offline   aramak 

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 13:08

View Postwillyid82, on 31 December 2019 - 11:33, said:

Il be as honest as I can , I didnít want mourinho , still donít but so far results have improved but performances have been very Jekyll and Hyde .

He has been out done tactically which concerns me greatly because thatís his bread and butter , thatís the good he brings in amongst the s*** he leaves behind.

But he has done some things which I canít lie have been good .
He has put Moura , son , alli and Kane in the same team which I believe poch should have done before the end of his era , he may still be with us if he did .
He has made early changes but the best thing imo he done was against Norwich when he hooked verts off and kept sess at left back.

Itís been a mixed bag and my judgement will begin next season .
This will end in tears I just hope we win a trophy to appease the fans that want this more than anything.


I still hold my stance on when mourinho does go levy f***s off with him.


Good post
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#18 User is offline   aramak 

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 13:15

View PostYidio Yidio, on 31 December 2019 - 11:51, said:

It's difficult to see where Levy goes after Mourinho if he fails. I wonder if that will sink in with Jose and he'll turn the screw for some cash in the summer.

I wonder if that's the very point when ENIC move aside (don't think they'll sell up entirely though).


Got me thinking that the Jose move might be about attracting serious investors to take over a majority share of the club as well as the stadium naming rights by showing that the club has everything in place to get to the top table.

And allows ENIC to make a hefty profit while still playing a role and having a say.
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#19 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 14:01

View Postaramak, on 31 December 2019 - 13:15, said:

Got me thinking that the Jose move might be about attracting serious investors to take over a majority share of the club as well as the stadium naming rights by showing that the club has everything in place to get to the top table.

And allows ENIC to make a hefty profit while still playing a role and having a say.


I think a few have seen it that way. It would make a lot of sense.
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#20 User is offline   50 Cent 

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Posted 31 December 2019 - 14:35

He has improved us going forward imo, by at least one goal per game against lesser teams.

He has solved certain things defensively, in terms of style, but the players aren't good enough individually defensively to fit Poch or Mourinho regardless of style.

When I say not good enough what I mean is, square pegs in round holes, not enough cover or desire to cover.

Unless you plug the gap in defensive midfield with an actual defender, or coach a defensive midfielder properly, then it is not a pragmatic humble approach imo.

Considering Mourinho's principles of play are based on pragmatism, disappointing to say the least.

If he wins something by the end of next season I will judge it as job done.

Right now, I don't believe in new manager bounce, and he has work to do.
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