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corona virus / vaccine passport chat

#21 User is offline   electricpace 

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Posted 18 August 2021 - 15:33

Bank card usage , internet purchases , phone gps should be on top of your list of concerns if Big Brother is bothering you. Bezos has 200 data points on every Amazon customer , Google have live data tracking every time you use their maps Ö Vaccine passport is the least of your worries.
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#22 User is offline   stokesie 

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Posted 18 August 2021 - 16:18

View Postelectricpace, on 18 August 2021 - 15:33, said:

Bank card usage , internet purchases , phone gps should be on top of your list of concerns if Big Brother is bothering you. Bezos has 200 data points on every Amazon customer , Google have live data tracking every time you use their maps Ö Vaccine passport is the least of your worries.

Itís nothing to do with big brother or whoever is collecting the data . I couldnít give a toss about it. What I care about is freedom of choice and not the country turning into a two tier society . Vaccine passports for domestic everyday use is nothing but medical apartheid .

How can a pub, restaurant or cafe survive if they have to place someone on the door all day and night to check every person that comes in for a drink ? Logistically and financially impossible . So why bother for football grounds ?
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#23 User is offline   journeyman 

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Posted 19 August 2021 - 06:19

f***s everthing up really for me, I would love to get back in my gym, had both jabs, but there are a lot of youngerpeople in there that have not had a jab, so very wary. I was going to ring and ask if they would do maybe one hour a day for just us old gits but not sure if they would, but could try I guess. I,m so wary of going as if I caught anything my wife has an underlying condition, and we,ve been so so very careful, not even had family in our home since all this stated what seems a life time ago, a real one to think about.f***ing lying chinese.
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#24 User is offline   stokesie 

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Posted 19 August 2021 - 07:18

Thatís a perfectly legitimate request, to have a time slot for vaccinated people only, just as it would be for a supermarket Ö I actually thought it would be right for supermarkets to have had time slots for the elderly to be able to do their shopping before anyone else at the start of all thisÖ

But having to show a certificate to go about your daily lives domestically is way over the top.. people were saying this would be suggested 15 months ago , and weíre getting slated for it and getting called conspiracy theorists .
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#25 User is offline   stokesie 

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Posted 19 August 2021 - 08:20

https://t.co/U6XQFkX86Y

So new study shows unvaccinated are just as likely to spread delta variant as vaccinated so it makes vaccine passports completely useless
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#26 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 19 August 2021 - 08:34

That's the point though isn't it, covid has/will disrupt your daily business. It's all an infringement on your personal choices.

Unfortunately, right from the beginning with the scientist and then the MP's, some think their common sense is good enough and better than the masses.

I still wear a mask in shops, but have recently eaten out and did not, basically (Like Journo) i'm doing most of the requirements for the benefit of family members who I spend alot of time avoiding.

Family have not renewed season tickets partly because of covid, but that's more to do with getting on public transport and sitting on a tube train than sitting in the stadium. Although, we've all sat next to a dickhead at one time or another and caught colds/flu on the underground before, it's a breeding ground for bacteria down there.
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#27 User is offline   stokesie 

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Posted 19 August 2021 - 09:42

It has disrupted daily lives for 18 months , but it shouldnít have to any more if we donít let it .

Once the elderly and vulnerable were vaccinated I stopped wearing a mask. Itís nothing but pure theatre now. Although if Iím told to wear one on public transport , or an aeroplane Iím perfectly happy to do so if it makes other people feel a little safer ..

But how people are championing the idea of showing your status to sit down to for a cup of coffee , a pint or burger and chips is quite frightening Ö

Thankfully the Spanish have seen sense and completely ruled it out , and the sooner we do the better
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#28 User is offline   griff 

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Posted 21 August 2021 - 10:13

Itís not pure theatre, thatís bloody ridiculous and I donít mean that in an insulting way.
What harm is there in carrying a vaccine passport, itís a form of protection for everybody. Tell the families of the 150,000 or so people who have lost loved ones that people thing itís nothing more than theatre and see what they say. Anybody,who has no legitimate reason for not having vaccinations are idiots and if they canít get in a pub then so be it.
Carrying a card in a wallet, whatís the big deal, next itíll be Ďwhy should I need to carry a driving licence Ď to prove I can drive?
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#29 User is offline   stokesie 

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Posted 21 August 2021 - 11:52

View Postgriff, on 21 August 2021 - 10:13, said:

Itís not pure theatre, thatís bloody ridiculous and I donít mean that in an insulting way.
What harm is there in carrying a vaccine passport, itís a form of protection for everybody. Tell the families of the 150,000 or so people who have lost loved ones that people thing itís nothing more than theatre and see what they say. Anybody,who has no legitimate reason for not having vaccinations are idiots and if they canít get in a pub then so be it.
Carrying a card in a wallet, whatís the big deal, next itíll be Ďwhy should I need to carry a driving licence Ď to prove I can drive?

Driving licence what a ridiculous comparison ..

The vaccine is a form of protection to stop you from being hospital bound . It does not stop you from getting it or passing it on, so only allowing people in public places that have been vaccinated is completely pointless . It will also completely devastate the hospitality industry . Independent pubs , cafes and restaurants will cease trading , and all you will be left with is chain businesses.

The problem is people like yourselves , and I mean this with respect , is that you havenít thought the process through , itís logistically impossible , and financially crippling . It also creates a two tier society , which is a very dangerous road to go down . We cease to be a free democratic country.

So, as for the 150,000 that have died , yes itís awful , but remember these people have not all died because of Covid , they have died with it !

Do we require flu passports ? Why not ? It kills 80,000 people a year ?

People have got to start looking at the facts and science instead of what a media channel want you to hear .

Vaccine passports are discriminatory, unscientific and wrongÖ They will save ZERO lives , but they certainly will ruin peopleís lives !
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#30 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 21 August 2021 - 12:47

View Poststokesie, on 21 August 2021 - 11:52, said:

Driving licence what a ridiculous comparison ..

The vaccine is a form of protection to stop you from being hospital bound . It does not stop you from getting it or passing it on, so only allowing people in public places that have been vaccinated is completely pointless . It will also completely devastate the hospitality industry . Independent pubs , cafes and restaurants will cease trading , and all you will be left with is chain businesses.

The problem is people like yourselves , and I mean this with respect , is that you havenít thought the process through , itís logistically impossible , and financially crippling . It also creates a two tier society , which is a very dangerous road to go down . We cease to be a free democratic country.

So, as for the 150,000 that have died , yes itís awful , but remember these people have not all died because of Covid , they have died with it !

Do we require flu passports ? Why not ? It kills 80,000 people a year ?

People have got to start looking at the facts and science instead of what a media channel want you to hear .

Vaccine passports are discriminatory, unscientific and wrongÖ They will save ZERO lives , but they certainly will ruin peopleís lives !


I don't claim to be ITK to much about all this and you do put a reasonable case forward. The only concern missing is the exposure rate that they talked about some time ago when Doctors and nurses were suffering quite badly and they put it down to the higher exposure to people with Covid.

Perhaps those who are unvaccinated, are being pressured to get vaccinated and maybe TB is the example of why the vaccinated has as much right to sit amid other vaccinated people, rather than be in close proximity of those not. As you say, the science is where to look, but they have often said they don't yet know enough about Covid to be 100% sure the unvaccinated are not going to be the very place Covid learns to mutate.
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#31 User is offline   griff 

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Posted 21 August 2021 - 14:02

View Poststokesie, on 21 August 2021 - 11:52, said:

Driving licence what a ridiculous comparison ..

The vaccine is a form of protection to stop you from being hospital bound . It does not stop you from getting it or passing it on, so only allowing people in public places that have been vaccinated is completely pointless . It will also completely devastate the hospitality industry . Independent pubs , cafes and restaurants will cease trading , and all you will be left with is chain businesses.

The problem is people like yourselves , and I mean this with respect , is that you havenít thought the process through , itís logistically impossible , and financially crippling . It also creates a two tier society , which is a very dangerous road to go down . We cease to be a free democratic country.

So, as for the 150,000 that have died , yes itís awful , but remember these people have not all died because of Covid , they have died with it !

Do we require flu passports ? Why not ? It kills 80,000 people a year ?

People have got to start looking at the facts and science instead of what a media channel want you to hear .

Vaccine passports are discriminatory, unscientific and wrongÖ They will save ZERO lives , but they certainly will ruin peopleís lives !

Having the double vaccine does not stop you catching the virus or passing it on but it does greatly reduce the possibility of both these things happening. If they do and a pub,restaurant etc state that they will only allow in customers who have been double vaccinated then what on Earth is wrong with that. There is much less chance of customers who have been double vaccinated either catching or passing the virus than customers who have not been double vaccinated. Anyway if someone has received one vaccination will certainly have the second and as the waiting period for the second is now not very long it shouldnít be a problem. Carrying proof of double vaccination, what on Earth is wrong with that, itíll probably be a credit card size proof in a wallet of handbag. Except for people with medical reasons ,anyone refusing the vaccine is an idiot anyway . Zero lives, how can anyone be sure of that? If there is the slightest possibility that the passports save one life then thatís ok with me.
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#32 User is offline   stokesie 

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Posted 21 August 2021 - 15:08

View Postgriff, on 21 August 2021 - 14:02, said:

Having the double vaccine does not stop you catching the virus or passing it on but it does greatly reduce the possibility of both these things happening. If they do and a pub,restaurant etc state that they will only allow in customers who have been double vaccinated then what on Earth is wrong with that. There is much less chance of customers who have been double vaccinated either catching or passing the virus than customers who have not been double vaccinated. Anyway if someone has received one vaccination will certainly have the second and as the waiting period for the second is now not very long it shouldnít be a problem. Carrying proof of double vaccination, what on Earth is wrong with that, itíll probably be a credit card size proof in a wallet of handbag. Except for people with medical reasons ,anyone refusing the vaccine is an idiot anyway . Zero lives, how can anyone be sure of that? If there is the slightest possibility that the passports save one life then thatís ok with me.


Goodness me .

Being double vaccinated does not stop you passing it on . It does not greatly reduce it either . Is now well below 50 percent against the delta variant and itís still dropping . Predictions are by the end of the year the difference between the vaccinated and unvaccinated passing it on will be minimal . It doesnít stop you from getting ill , it prevents you from being in ICU and dying , abs even then thatís not 100 percent . There are plenty of people that are still dying even though they are double jabbed .

So if it doesnít stop you from passing it on it makes the vaccunevpaaoort system pointless .

Iím going to put a scenario forward Ö

The red lion pub

How do they stop an unvaccinated person from entering ? Putting a bar code up on the door ? Who is there checking that people are doing it properly ? Because track and trace , writing your telephone numbers down never worked . You think everybody write their real number down ?

So unvaccinated people will go in anyway if itís not bring enforced , so it makes it pointless .

So ok, you put someone on the door from open until close.,12 hour day .. how much is that going to cost ? How can a pub afford that ? What if they have 3 entrances ? 3 people at the door ? The place will be bust within a month

Ok so the barman asks for your Covid passport before he pulls you a pint .. 10 deep at a bar . Then someone refuses to show it Ö. They have already been in there mixing with people , so again it makes the whole thing pointless Ö.

This is just a small example of how it can affect hospitality, thatís without getting into fake passports .

Poor individual restaurants and cafes Ö Covid passes to go for a haircut ? Your local newsagents ? Petrol stations ?..

Have you actually thought about the logistics of it all ? The morality of it Ö you havenít , youíve just allowed emotion and the media to cloud your jjudgement..

Covid derangement syndrome has literally sent normal sensible people totally insane . If people are that scared of this even though themselves have been double jabbed , then they should just stay in their houses , lock the door , close the curtains and never come out again .

Again I mean no offence or disrespect to you , and my sympathies if you have lost anyone close to you regarding Covid .

For the record I am double jabbed , and have a mother who is very susceptible to this illness even though she has been double jabbed Ö

Iím pro choice
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#33 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 21 August 2021 - 15:34

The problem with being pro choice, it's a selfish approach. I choose to understand democracy as majority rule, rather than freedom of individual choice. That's just naive.
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#34 User is offline   journeyman 

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Posted 22 August 2021 - 06:27

I like both Yidio, and Stoksies view, I have always gone done the route and believed in Yidios take, "Everyone should be vaccinated not only for them selves, but for the benefit of all so that life can get back to as normal as possible.

But Like Stoksie has said I too (like a lot I guess) have read about the effectivness of the vaccine against the Delta strain, and maybe soon the effectivness will drop to 0 who knows.

Both my wife and I are doublr jabbed, my wife does have an underlying medical condition, so we exercise extreme care, but my wife id much more wary than myself. I mean we have not even had any family in our home since "Mothers day" 2020. all we,ve had in our home is a sky engineer, a plumber, and had our boiler serviced.

I would love to get back to my gym, but a lot in gyms are mostly yoinger, who can fight this thing better, a lot are not jabbed, and my gym is now operating as normal, I am just so wary of mixing with a lot of youger people, for any length of time in an enclosed space. A lot to think about I guess.
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#35 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 22 August 2021 - 07:51

View Postjourneyman, on 22 August 2021 - 06:27, said:

I like both Yidio, and Stoksies view, I have always gone done the route and believed in Yidios take, "Everyone should be vaccinated not only for them selves, but for the benefit of all so that life can get back to as normal as possible.

But Like Stoksie has said I too (like a lot I guess) have read about the effectivness of the vaccine against the Delta strain, and maybe soon the effectivness will drop to 0 who knows.

Both my wife and I are doublr jabbed, my wife does have an underlying medical condition, so we exercise extreme care, but my wife id much more wary than myself. I mean we have not even had any family in our home since "Mothers day" 2020. all we,ve had in our home is a sky engineer, a plumber, and had our boiler serviced.

I would love to get back to my gym, but a lot in gyms are mostly yoinger, who can fight this thing better, a lot are not jabbed, and my gym is now operating as normal, I am just so wary of mixing with a lot of youger people, for any length of time in an enclosed space. A lot to think about I guess.


I have to ask the question Journo, if your Gym was only allowing entry of Vaccinated people, would you then use the gym or continue to shield for the benefit of your wife ?
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#36 User is offline   griff 

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Posted 22 August 2021 - 08:28

As usual, itís a minority within a majority
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#37 User is offline   stokesie 

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Posted 22 August 2021 - 11:25

View Postgriff, on 22 August 2021 - 08:28, said:

As usual, itís a minority within a majority

Who is the minority ?
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#38 User is offline   griff 

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Posted 22 August 2021 - 12:10

View Poststokesie, on 22 August 2021 - 11:25, said:

Who is the minority ?

Cryptic clue😂
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#39 User is offline   tomtom 

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Posted 23 August 2021 - 15:29

Stokesie does make a few reasonable points but there are some misunderstandings wrapped up in them. He's not alone, 10,000s of people are repeating these "facts" because the whole thing is very poorly communicated by the authorities - and many people making policy and/or communicating it (politicians and media) don't understand the data themselves.

I'm not a scientist but am surrounded by them in my family so have a fairly decent grasp, and whilst not "ITK" as yidio put it I know a few people on the frontline of the pandemic response in different roles (some on healthcare side, some pharma and some political) and in different countries.

Latest data suggests (and it's worth noting that most studies are still underway and peer reviewing takes time, that goes for the one Stokesie shared above also) that if you catch the delta variant (which is much less likely if you're fully vaccinated) then while you may still be just as likely to transmit it when you have peak viral load, the time you would have that peak amount is likely massively reduced, therefore bringing down your overall chance of transmission dramatically. So if you consider that you're less likely to have it in the first place if you're fully vaxxed, and then statistically much less likely to have a high enough viral load to transmit it at any given point if you do catch it, the headlines that you're just as likely to pass it on are obviously a complete misrepresentation of the data.

Similarly analysing what percentage of people catching the delta variant have been vaccinated is stupid because there's a lot more people who have been vaccinated than not now, so the odds of someone with covid having been vaccinated will be higher even though the chances of them catching it were massively reduced.
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#40 User is offline   Yidio Yidio 

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Posted 23 August 2021 - 16:34

View Posttomtom, on 23 August 2021 - 15:29, said:

Stokesie does make a few reasonable points but there are some misunderstandings wrapped up in them. He's not alone, 10,000s of people are repeating these "facts" because the whole thing is very poorly communicated by the authorities - and many people making policy and/or communicating it (politicians and media) don't understand the data themselves.

I'm not a scientist but am surrounded by them in my family so have a fairly decent grasp, and whilst not "ITK" as yidio put it I know a few people on the frontline of the pandemic response in different roles (some on healthcare side, some pharma and some political) and in different countries.

Latest data suggests (and it's worth noting that most studies are still underway and peer reviewing takes time, that goes for the one Stokesie shared above also) that if you catch the delta variant (which is much less likely if you're fully vaccinated) then while you may still be just as likely to transmit it when you have peak viral load, the time you would have that peak amount is likely massively reduced, therefore bringing down your overall chance of transmission dramatically. So if you consider that you're less likely to have it in the first place if you're fully vaxxed, and then statistically much less likely to have a high enough viral load to transmit it at any given point if you do catch it, the headlines that you're just as likely to pass it on are obviously a complete misrepresentation of the data.

Similarly analysing what percentage of people catching the delta variant have been vaccinated is stupid because there's a lot more people who have been vaccinated than not now, so the odds of someone with covid having been vaccinated will be higher even though the chances of them catching it were massively reduced.


Thank you, very good
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