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Tottenham Hotspur 1-1 Chelsea Sunday 12 December 2010, KO: 16:00 GMT, White Hart Lane

#41 Guest_GJHSpurs_*

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 14:01

QUOTE (EuanW @ Dec 10 2010, 06:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The way I see it is.......

- Keane is s***, I don't want him in our team irregardless of formulas etc.

- You want to drop Palacios and shoe horn in a defender into DM which is plain silly,imo. Despite that singular pass against Twente, Palacios had a very good game, and may just be getting some confidence back now, yet you want to drop him when there is scant all other midfielders available, and replace him with a defender. Might as well throw Wilson in a garbage can and set fire to him, because your basically telling him he's dog s***, and your done with him, for no real apparent reason. He's also our most physically strong midfielder, and could be invaluable against a powerful unit like Chelsea. This is Wilsons big chance to find that form he had when he first came, with the other injuries just now. Given he's been improving steadily, why mess with his head ?

- Agree to some degree on Corluka BUT we beat Chelsea last season by attacking them relentlessly and not giving them time to breathe, so we should look to do the same again. Don't think Hutton being in will make much difference. Furthermore, Corluka wasn't exactly great during the week and it would be sending out completely the wrong message to the whole squad, to drop Hutton who is playing well, for someone that hasn't this season. Poor man management, something that Wenger does down the road.

Gomes

Hutton
Gallas
Dawson/Bassong
Ekotto

Lennon
Palacios
Modric
Bale

Defoe
Crouch

for me. Chelsea are sure to be wobbling confidence wise right now, and they will remember WHL from last season. Lets get at them from the start like we did last time, or like against Man City first game of the season.


Ok, Keane has been hopeless for the last 2 years and I haven't forgotten the 'Liverpool Dream Move' bulls**t either so let's forget about him. The real issue there is the need for another decent striker and I think we all agree on that.
Regarding Hutton/Corluka, I hear what you are saying but I would add this...IMO they both bring something different to the party but unfortunately neither of them is the perfect right back. Every game is different, especially for a team like Spurs, and I think it is perfectly acceptable for a manager to tweak things here and there from game to game in order to address the specific challenges posed by a particular team, without this undermining a player's confidence. Communication between the manager and his players is key so that they understand the reason for a switch and know that it is not an indictment of their general contribution. 'Arry probably excels at this aspect of his job. Having said that, I take the point made by sevensteps that the pace of Malouda down that flank might be better met by the speedy Hutton....I hadn't thought of that.
Moving on to Wilson, PnR has got it spot on...we cannot keep leaking goals like we have and expect to prosper. I can't take you up on Wilson's performance against Twenty, because I wasn't concentrating on him sufficiently. However, I would say this...my issue with Wilson is not his actual performance, it is the places in which it is happening. Personally, I don't want to see WP bearing down on the opponent's keeper(great tackle though it was), I want to see him patrolling a strech of the pitch no more that 5-10 yards in front of the back four. His job should be to win the ball and give it simple to the likes of LM, GB,AL or an overlapping fullback. A sweeper in front of the back four, if you like. Claude Makielela comes to mind. If I was in charge that is where he would play. My suggestion of Gallas was a little tongue in cheek but I did have in mind the fact that this would enable us to play Dawson and Bassong and I suspect he has the self-discipline to stay in that position...recall his instructions to JJ in the second half at Arsenal.
Finally, believe it or not, I am a great believer in loyalty and team spirit but at the end of the day the team comes first and not the sensibilities of any player. I would gladly play WP in the role I just suggested because I think he would do ok. But if he didn't do the business, I would have no hesitation in dropping him. The only question that remains is, do you start Dawson tomorrow or is that unfair and sending out the wrong message to Bassong?

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#42 Guest_GJHSpurs_*

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 14:08

One final thing on the need for a defensive CM sweeper...thing of how this lack of cover was ruthlessly exploited for Arsenal's 2nd goal and the way the whole defence was exposed on a couple of occasions when we were 0-1 down against Liverpool. Ok sorry...I've bored you enough, I'm off now. rolleyes.gif
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#43 Guest_EuanW_*

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 14:35

Will keep short.

@ Spurious. We can talk all we want about what will work or what won't work, but we beat Chelsea 8 months ago with Pav and Defoe up front. Keane's time is gone, I cant agree with starting him.

@ GJH Spurs. I'd be more open to what your saying about Corluka if he hadn't played like a dick all season. One of the main reasons I've been standing behind Palacios in recent weeks is because of the other injuries we have, however, we have a fully fit Hutton who has actually played a lot better than Corluka offensively and defensively. I like Charlie, but one less dodgy performance midweek isn't enough to convince right now that he should start, given that all the other evidence this season is grim viewing. Using that evidence, Cole and Malouda would massacre him.

The DM/ conceding goals etc ISNT a personnel problem, therefore isn't an individual players fault. It sounds like its the manager you disagree with, because its fairly obvious that Palacios is not under any instructions to merely 'patrol' a defensive area. We NEVER have someone doing that, Huddlestone doesn't do it, Jenas doesn't do it. Harry likes his CM pairing to work in tandem and switch about. Change in tactics required, and I'd agree with you. Anyways, even if someone is under that intstruction you cant fault them for occasionally being higher up the pitch. Wilson is actually very good at reading when to sit back and when he needs to step up and put a foot in. Without very specific instructions, I'm sure Gallas would love to go wandering as a midfielder as well, btw !
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#44 Guest_Tommospur_*

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 15:12

QUOTE (GJHSpurs @ Dec 11 2010, 02:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One final thing on the need for a defensive CM sweeper...thing of how this lack of cover was ruthlessly exploited for Arsenal's 2nd goal and the way the whole defence was exposed on a couple of occasions when we were 0-1 down against Liverpool. Ok sorry...I've bored you enough, I'm off now. rolleyes.gif


How can you write off Palacios for reasons of form - when every performance on his way to match fitness has shown significant improvement - but back Corluka when his form has been dire all season and his midweek contribution far from convincing?
Sorry Euan, there are elements of you're argument here but was interested what GJH thinks on this direct question...
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#45 Guest_Spurious_*

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 16:35

QUOTE (Tommospur @ Dec 11 2010, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How can you write off Palacios for reasons of form - when every performance on his way to match fitness has shown significant improvement - but back Corluka when his form has been dire all season and his midweek contribution far from convincing?
Sorry Euan, there are elements of you're argument here but was interested what GJH thinks on this direct question...


I must concur, although I agree with GJH for the most part. I have a feeling WP will become a monster if 'Arry keeps playing him often enough. We need someone with a physical presence while we're waiting for all our boys on the disabled list to return.

Euan, I agree Keane's proper place is the YouTube archive. But we need someone to "f***in run around a bit" and tire out their back four, whether he gets a toe in or not. If we must choose between Pav and Robbie (and what kind of a choice it that?), who'll create more fatigue for Chelsea's defenders? I want them falling down, gasping for breath during the last ten minutes!
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#46 Guest_Pushandrun61_*

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 17:32

Ewan believes that Pavs runing/movement is "excellent". And this is where opinions differ.

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#47 Guest_Pushandrun61_*

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 17:43

QUOTE (Tommospur @ Dec 11 2010, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How can you write off Palacios for reasons of form - when every performance on his way to match fitness has shown significant improvement - but back Corluka when his form has been dire all season and his midweek contribution far from convincing?
Sorry Euan, there are elements of you're argument here but was interested what GJH thinks on this direct question...

Wilson is a combative midfielder and this part of his game is getting better with matches. The problem we have is that Hudd knits things together by keeping possesion and moving the ball quickly and easily. Wilson's form in this department will never reach the same level to that of Hudd however much we wish it would.

Wilson is an asset to our squad for the things he is good at and he must provide cover while we have injuries in this position, not be a like for like player to Hudd.

It would be nice if people just admitted that his passing can go badly wrong at times.
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#48 Guest_EuanW_*

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 17:54

Are you telling me that his movement around the box isn't good ? Also, how the f*** does he get into positions, to fail in holding up the ball, if he doesn't make good runs, and doesn't drop off well ? He may not put sterling work in when we don't have the ball, but seriously, watch how much slicker we play as a passing team when its Pav/Defoe upfront. You can actually see that Hudd/Modric et al enjoy it when Pav plays because they get to play ball into feet.Take the blinkers off a little, I think my assessment of Pav was very fair in the other Pav thread if you go back and read it. Far more fair and correct than anyone who dislikes Pav has managed to muster.

Also, you may note that I picked CROUCH CROUCH CROUCH PETER CROUCH to start against Chelsea. In the context of this thread you are wrong. This is NOT where opinion is differing.

Lets just go the full hog and play Keane and dos Santos upfront, with Gallas in CM and Hutton on the right wing shall we ? Might as well put Mido and his latest batch of pies on the bench as well.

QUOTE
It would be nice if people just admitted that his passing can go badly wrong at times.


Oh look, its the phantom secret society again ! The same people that hushed up anti Gallas chat I presume ? LMFAO. I'll give you a challenge PnR, find me ONE PERSON on here that hasn't alluded to or mentioned that Palacios' passing has been sub standard at times.

Go on.

I double dare you.
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#49 Guest_Tommospur_*

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 18:04

QUOTE (Pushandrun61 @ Dec 11 2010, 05:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Wilson is a combative midfielder and this part of his game is getting better with matches. The problem we have is that Hudd knits things together by keeping possesion and moving the ball quickly and easily. Wilson's form in this department will never reach the same level to that of Hudd however much we wish it would.

Wilson is an asset to our squad for the things he is good at and he must provide cover while we have injuries in this position, not be a like for like player to Hudd.

It would be nice if people just admitted that his passing can go badly wrong at times.


I've frequently said that Wilson's passing is the weakest part of his game, but was just questioning the rule of being picked on form where Corluka was apparently supposed to be chosen when another when Hutton's playing better...
I have never once said that I'd rather Palacios was picked ahead of Huddlestone - who I'm a massive fan of - however it's not an option just now due to injury. My position was just in favour of the former over JJ.
And Pav's movement has never really been in question, more his workrate and pace throughout a game.
In my opinion Harry will remember last year's performance against Blue Scum and start with Defoe/The Russian...
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#50 Guest_Pushandrun61_*

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 18:49


Phantom secret society LMFAO. And yes, i am saying the two or three runs he makes per game arn't excellent. Excellent isn't a word i would use to descibe anything Pav does.

As i stated in the post before, this is where opinions differ, i too also believe that my assessment of Pav is much fairer than others. And i stand by the fact that his movement is not Excellent but if you actually believe that he is Super Pav and my short post is a waste of everybody's time to the point where you feel the need to spit your dummy and start posting like a child then carry on oh wise sage of the planet that is Spurs.
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#51 Guest_EuanW_*

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 19:03

QUOTE
As i stated in the post before, this is where opinions differ


I wasn't telling Spurious to play Pav at all, I want Crouch to play, hence it wasn't where our opinion was differing. Given that, it seems a bit bizarre that you would aim a jibe at me about Pav when it had nothing to do with what were talking about.

QUOTE
And i stand by the fact that his movement is not Excellent but if you actually believe that he is Super Pav


Eh, what ? I believe he is Super Pav ? Here's the assessment I offered....

'very good' movement/runs
Poor at winning headers
Inconsistent at holding the ball up
good technique
lazy and weak for his size
good goals to minutes ratio

Hardly translates as Super Pav.

QUOTE
and my short post is a waste of everybody's time to the point where you feel the need to spit your dummy and start posting like a child then carry on oh wise sage of the planet that is Spurs.


I'm no wise sage at all, although I do think I'm making sense and following logic. In this instance, whilst I always enjoy debating with you, I don't think you have been making sense with some of the things you said for the above reasons, and for the Palacios one that I quoted in my previous post as well. Up until the weekend/Twente game, I believe I was labelling Palacios' passing as 'unacceptably' bad. Tom's the most pro Palacios person on this site, and he is even well aware of Wilson's weakness, that thankfully seems to be improving.
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#52 Guest_Pushandrun61_*

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 19:14

QUOTE (Tommospur @ Dec 11 2010, 06:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've frequently said that Wilson's passing is the weakest part of his game, but was just questioning the rule of being picked on form where Corluka was apparently supposed to be chosen when another when Hutton's playing better...
I have never once said that I'd rather Palacios was picked ahead of Huddlestone - who I'm a massive fan of - however it's not an option just now due to injury. My position was just in favour of the former over JJ.
And Pav's movement has never really been in question, more his workrate and pace throughout a game.
In my opinion Harry will remember last year's performance against Blue Scum and start with Defoe/The Russian...

I wasn't suggesting that you did want Wilson in front of Hudd, and i made no mention of Jenas in my post as he is injured and unable to play.

My remark about Wilson "Badly Wrong" is not freely admitted by that many, as your phrase used in this post proves "weakest part of his game".

Also i don't dis-agree with your points about Corluka, he didn't look very comfortable against Twente.



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#53 Guest_obi_*

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 19:23

I would go with the squad that has been on lately. No dawson yet, not in a game like this. there are better places to get macht fit than againts the champions. Crouch for me, its actually easy call in my mind. Can't see pav doing anything and i expect chelsea to be defending with all they got, ancelotti has the italian school training so i think he will try to correct their form by making them as hard to beat as possible. For this reason also hutton is clear choice for me, we need his attacking if we want to score, like said corluka has been far from convencing this season.

only player choice that makes me wonder is that could we get kaboul to the team. Instead of bassong or hutton, depends so much on his recory that i can't say. maybe him over palancios in dm. he was great there couple of times and he is even more physical&battling than wilson. no complains about his speed or tecnique either...would be intresting,but like said this is not the match to try things....

if we show up and play our own game we will win. how much depend on what stage chelski is in their recory

COYS!!!!!!!!
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#54 Guest_Pushandrun61_*

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 19:38

QUOTE (EuanW @ Dec 11 2010, 07:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I wasn't telling Spurious to play Pav at all, I want Crouch to play, hence it wasn't where our opinion was differing. Given that, it seems a bit bizarre that you would aim a jibe at me about Pav when it had nothing to do with what were talking about.



Eh, what ? I believe he is Super Pav ? Here's the assessment I offered....

'very good' movement/runs
Poor at winning headers
Inconsistent at holding the ball up
good technique
lazy and weak for his size
good goals to minutes ratio

Hardly translates as Super Pav.



I'm no wise sage at all, although I do think I'm making sense and following logic. In this instance, whilst I always enjoy debating with you, I don't think you have been making sense with some of the things you said for the above reasons, and for the Palacios one that I quoted in my previous post as well. Up until the weekend/Twente game, I believe I was labelling Palacios' passing as 'unacceptably' bad.

It wasn't ment as a jibe, although i did fall off my chair when you posted that Pavs movement/runs were excellent. I've obviously caught you on a bad day. to be honest "very good" is pushing it a bit rolleyes.gif
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#55 Guest_Tommospur_*

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 19:44

What's this fixation developing with playing centre-backs over specialist midfielders? It's f***ing mad!
Whilst Kaboul does have the attributes to play there, I wouldn't bring him in if we had any of our midfielders fit to cover the position...
To my recollection Kaboul only once played there for us, when we literally had no one else to put there - away at Stoke last season wasn't it?
Says it all really, a physical presence with aerial prowess was needed at the Britannia, I don't expect it to be a regular occurrence.
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#56 Guest_EuanW_*

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 19:48

Then I believe we have reached an impasse, since I'm being grumpy and you're making things up, then avoiding the points I'm making ! rolleyes.gif

I hope we play Keane and Pav up top tomorrow and we win 6-1 with both getting hatricks. A Palacios misplaced pass into our own top corner will account for their goal, and give Wilson goal of the month honours.


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#57 Guest_Pushandrun61_*

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 21:00

QUOTE (EuanW @ Dec 11 2010, 07:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Then I believe we have reached an impasse, since I'm being grumpy and you're making things up, then avoiding the points I'm making ! rolleyes.gif

I hope we play Keane and Pav up top tomorrow and we win 6-1 with both getting hatricks. A Palacios misplaced pass into our own top corner will account for their goal, and give Wilson goal of the month honours.

Excellent
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#58 Guest_SevenSteps2Kevin_*

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 22:49

haha...love reading all of your petty squabbling wink1.gif

think bassong should play instead of daws. bassong got a goal for us last weekend and is match fit. daws still hasn't played a prem game since september and i don't think chelsea is a good one to come back to.
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#59 Guest_Pushandrun61_*

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Posted 11 December 2010 - 23:09

QUOTE (SevenSteps2Kevin @ Dec 11 2010, 10:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
haha...love reading all of your petty squabbling wink1.gif

think bassong should play instead of daws. bassong got a goal for us last weekend and is match fit. daws still hasn't played a prem game since september and i don't think chelsea is a good one to come back to.

Bassong has scored his goal this season, but your probably right about daws.

Glad you see the funny side biggrin.gif
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#60 Guest_stoxy1_*

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Posted 12 December 2010 - 11:45

for me palacios has to play, hes getting better every game so lets all get behind him. id agree with bassong starting, however i think harry may want to put dawson in for his superior strength and aerial ability (compared to bassong) against drogba.
for me i wouldnt know who to start up front with defoe aslong as it isnt keane!! tbh whoever it is i cant see doing much at all so i would probably favour pav as it will hopefully get us playing the right way instead of the long balls.
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